Okay so its like this. Little sis has got her first serious boyfriend - she's very happy and excited and all that. Pretty much bouncing off the walls - which is good, right? Though I think she can do much better.

Then a couple days ago boyfriend calls - oh god, he's just so sorry, he got drunk, he cheated on her it was such a huge mistake, he slept with some chick at some crackhead party, he never meant to hurt her...

Which pisses me off. She's fifteen, she's sweet and innocent, smart, she's gorgeous, could be a model. And that's not just a sisterly exaggeration. This guys playing her. He thinks he should get some sort of brownie points for being honest, or something. She's in tears, wants to know what she should do. I tell her to tell him to fuck off. What else is there to do, I figure it can't be fixed.

He calls back. Oh no, he didn't actually sleep with her - he can't really remember, he was so wasted and high - he only kissed her, his friends told him he slept with her, they thought it would be a good joke...

So I tell her he's bullshitting. Obviously.

But you know what?

She chooses to take him back. Why do smart ppl do shit like this to themselves? He's obviously no good for her, and he's just not (in my opinion) good enough for her.

So what i wanna know is - do you guys think there's room in relationships for second chances when it comes to cheating? And any possible help on how i could get her to reconsider...

No really, your sister is 15. I don't think that she should be seeing someone that is getting drunk/high at crack head parties let alone sleeping with other people.

Not to sound mean or anything, but your sister must get a clue, if he cheated on her once, it is bound to happen again.

Try and talk more sense into her.

Just as a matter of interest, how old is this guy?

Yeah, I agree with Duck here. If he's done it once, who's to say he won't do it again. Added to the fact that she's so much younger than him (or at least I hope he is, judging by his actions) he won't stay with her for long, making it a pointless excercise
soz ://

He is the same age as her.

I'm so frustrated she's attached herself to this dumbass, she's too stubborn to listen to me! Short of putting out a contract on him or running him over with a truck I have no idea what to do.

She wouldn't get into any of the stuff he's into (I hope.. ) but he's tainting her. The cheating is just the icing, the reason she should dump him. When I'm convinced he was never worth it in the first place!

If this guy is only 15 years old, and he is into drinking/drugs/sex, one can only imagine what he will be like later on in life. Hopefully your sister is not dragged into these things, but it is hard to say, peer pressure can sway ones mind very easily. :/

Hope your sister ditches this guy and finds herself someone that will be better a better match.

Well put, Duckman!

There is a saying that I would like to mention over here: A Drunk man speaks sober.

Tell that to yoru sister and let her ponder about this guy - he is a screwball, and is most definately not old enough to be doing all this shit.

Young love... so nice, yet so confusing... It turns the smartest of us into bonafide fools. *sigh*

15 years old? getting drunk, doing drugs and sleeping around
perfect guy to take home to mom hey?

Phoenix you can do all you can but the decision is still hers, and at her age she wont listen to you either. So she will have to deal with it on her own, just stick with her when seh realises that hes an ass and comes home crying some day

hey, phoenix, why don't you tell him to fuck off, he sounds like quite a wanker so if he comes round, answer the door and tell it to his face, FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING WANKER, of course you could ignore him and allow your sister to join him in his orgys of sex, drugs and booze.

Well, if this guy is sleeping around then one of two things is gonna happen. Either he's gonna shag your sister or he's not. I can tell you right now that if I had a 15 year old sister and I heard this story I would lose my marble right there and get hold of the boyfriend for a little 'chat'. Without letting the sister know, of course, coz young people tend to get funny about their rights and privacy getting violated.

Or just get a few male friends to have a nice "chat" with him

My sister had a guy like that! (Only t wasn't when she was 15 she was 17/18)

She eventually saw his true colours but not after getting hurt! Somedays i wish i took the Fuck Head for a "talk" & made him understand never to come back to our house, but i was afraid of "losing" my sister (our "relationship" wasn't to well then) so i let i slide! But after i heard all the stuff that relly happend i wish i "Lost" her & got him out of her live, rather than keeping her & allowing him into her live!!!

Though choice! But if i'm you tell him to F'Off!! Or get some friends, prev big guy friends, of you that he doesn't know & your sister wouldn't suspect to get MSG through to him!!!

Best of Luck!!!

Phoenix

Do your parents know the whole story?
If not, they should be told. They're still responsible for her wellbeing and MUST act to protect your sister (even if she objects, which she probably will). She'll hate you now, but thank you in two years. Do you love her enough to weather the storm and wait for her gratitude? Nothing messes us up as much as bad relationships, so if you love her you should get your parents' help. A real gentleman always acts to protect a lady from cads. You can and should rise to this challenge! Go for it! The stakes are much higher than mere 'cheating' - it's the integrity and innocence of someone's future wife, an innocenet girl's heart. You're 20. Act!
If your parents do know, what are they doing to protect her from this lout?

- eYe

You need to find away to protect your sis, maybe telling you're parents is a bit difficult but there's always a solution, follow him with a cam, who knows? But if she persists to see him try to make sure she doesn't get influenced by the Drugs/Sex/Alcohol sometimes there's no way out. Only u know what kind of relationship u have with your sis.
Why do girls always go after the Bad Boy? and claim all men are scum.

I don’t think that you should follow this guy around or have “chats” with him. If your sister was to find out that you did you these things, the trust would be gone. Then she defiantly won’t take your opinion on this guy.

I think if she is still seeing this guy, have a few friendly sister to sister talks with her, get her to open up to you about this guy. What makes him that much more special from other guys.

Please keep us updated with the situation. I would really like to know what happens in the end.

...sorry i took so long to get back on this issue, things are a bit of a mess these days.

I'm starting to like the idea of a few male friends with hockey sticks (hell, i'd like to join them) but I know she'd never forgive me. And the same if i were to tell my parents - you see, the whole reason she came to me is because we have this trust thing. And for other reasons I'd rather not explain, i can't risk that. I sound like a wuss and I hate to say it but if I lost her i don't think I could ever get her back.

I will try some of Duck's tactics for now, to try and talk to her. To try and understand exactly what her feelings are for this guy, to let her know she can trust me to at least try to understand things from her side. I'll decide where to go from there.



I know it is...and I know what you mean. But...I don't know, this might sound very Japanese or whatever but if I ever get involved, i have to do it in such a way that she doesn't 'lose face.' That's important. And that's where i'm having all my problems trying to find a solution.

(Oh ja and the original title for this thread was 'Cheating Bastard', but I punked out at the last minute...)

I'm terribly sorry if this is off topic...

This reminds me of an english assignment we had to do on "today's youth". I hate about 97.69% of all the children in my school (mostly the afrikaans kids, although I'm afrikaans myself). They are such self centered stubborn whiney bastards. Now, I'm sure your sister doesn't fall into that catogory. I'm just wondering how the hell she got the oke she's with now. I've notced that children cant handle "pressure" from their group of friends. What saddens me the most, is that some of them can be so stupid to actually do something like smoke dagga or drink some booze or try some oral sex just so that their useless pathetic know-it-all friends won't abandandon them and they'll be left to hang out with the "geeks". I'm not entirely anti-social, I'm just one of the the quiet people. I see, I hear, I remember.

Now, I can understand why you don't want to jeapordize your relationship with your sister by following her boyfriend or talking to him. But, I think you should communicate more with her on this sensitive matter. Another point I would like to bring up is this: What in God's name is your sister doing with a guy that could have potentially have had sexual intercourse with other people? You must probably be worried sick about your sister, how do you and I not know that she's had... (wait for it) sex with this guy? I'm shocked but not amazed to see that children are having sex at the age of fifteen. Some people in this world are too easily influenced by their friends, the media and their religious leaders.

Now, I'm no psychologist (spelling) but I get the feeling that your sis and your parents dont get along too well. I think you guys should work on your relationships with each other. You might also be able to talk some sense into her. What do I think you should do? Get your sister to talk to your mother and father. You guys should come together as a family and discuss this! Also your sister has to be taught some serious lessons about life. Sure, drinking, smoking, partying, having casual sex can be fun. But wait til somebody gets pregnant, raped or (worst case scenario) get HIV/Aids. I also think that she's far too young to be having serious relationships.

Ok, *warms up engines* let m get into this, because this is an old old scar of mine, newly reopened.

I dont know what the fuck it is with women and going back to idiot selfish sons of fucking bitches like this guy. It grates my balls to be honest and sorry to have to say it, but any chick that allows herself to emotionally played and discareded, needs to be taken out and slapped till she wakes the hell up.

You want some good advice? Take your sister to Cotlands or an AIDS sanctuary. Let her hold in her own arms a helpless bundle of like that she KNOWS will not live past age 3. Let her hold in her hands the product of 'drunken stupors' and 'high charades'. Let her see death full on in the face and hope to God she sees some sense.

Let's not get emotional, and let's look at the facts. 1) this dude is involved with drugs. If nothing else, NOTHING else, tells me this guy is a complete waste its that. 2) He is drinking himself into stupors. This is bad enough as it is, not to mention the fact that it's also illegal. 3) I have been drunk or out of control on a few occassions myself and while I will attest to the fact that peer pressure and many other factors might contribute to you being drunk once or twice, I have never done anything unbecoming or lascivious while I was inebriated. If you do that when you are drunk its merely your true personality shining through. If infidelity is his true character then more's the reason to cut him off now. 4) That bullshit about the guy being honest and coming forward with the info is a load of crap and counts for nothing. If he was really honest, he would acknowledge that he cheated (in whatever form, kiss, sex MAKES NO DIFFERENCE) and then say not, "please forgive me" but rather "Please let me make it up to you". How? Quit drugs, get rehab, stop drinking and prove to her beyond a shadow of a doubt that she is the only one. The mere fact that he is unwilling to do this tells me that he is after your sister's looks and wants to get into her pants, even if he, at this stage, cant admit that to even himself.

It FUCKING PISSES ME OFF, that there are good guys out there, who are willing to take care of their ladies, treat them as equals, love them, care for them be there fore them, be faithful and be ideal people. Why in the name of all things sacred, is it so fucking difficult for a woman to accept a good man? Like its some sort of fucking course, that they have to start with assholes and mould them into nice people? I was told by a good friend of mine that girls like bastards because they want to change them. If this is the case, then here is your god damn mother theresa award, dont come crying to me when your 17 pregnant have AIDS and your own family doesn't want to speak to you.

I dont know how much your sister knows about the statistics of SA, but 1 in 4 people has AIDS. That means that statistically speaking, one member of your family should have it. ( I know it doesn't quite work like that but im making a point) That means if she is willign to convalute with an idiot that is throwing his soldier at anything that moves, that she is in serious danger of commiting herself to a road that means she wont live a full life. Like I said, holding a dying baby in your arms REALLY brings this point home. People back home have this damn feeling of no it wont happen to me. Bullshit! It can and it will and if you are going to fart ass around with emotional dependencies and loyalties then sorry sister, but put your head between your legs and kiss you ass totsies, cause Kansas, is going bye bye.

As for infedelity in the large. In a marriage, where kids or older people are involved. Yes, second chance, seek help, go to counselling, explore the options before saying no. She is 15 though for God's sake. Ditch the loser. She owes him nothing and she has NOTHING to lose. If after a time she decides she wants back in cause he has cleaned up etc. she can just talk to him like a humane person and say it wasn't right then it feels right now, can we try again? Simple finished klaar.

My God, I dont know, I look at the world and some people and I feel like im taking crazy pills. This is the fundamental problem and point of the nice guy theory. Why good guys get screwed, because women cant sort their shit. Watch Forrest Gump again, in fact make her watch it too. And see where the dude who is loyal, the dude who simply loves because he follows his heart and see where the dumbass bitch with the issues ends up. Dont think that the nice guy doesn't have security. Dont think the nice guy doens't have looks. The nice guy will always be there for the cihck and 9 times out of 10 he gets fuckall for it.

In terms of helping your sister. I dont think talkign to her, berating her, holding her back or any of those things are going to help. She is a teenager and as such she is the only one who feels like she feels, she is the only one who has ever been cheated on, she is the only person in the whole world who could possibly conceive of what is happening to her and as such is above all help and understanding. Trust me, I JUST crossed that hurdle, I know what I'm talkign about. The more people try to constrain or teach her, the more she will rebel and slip through their fingers.

I dont actually have any contrsuctive advice other than to say take her to Cotlands, dont brush it off as a useless gesture. If she is going to go back to the guy, then will all due respect, she is nto worht it. But is she does go back, for pity's sake make sure she doens't just bork the dude, cause she will lose an innocence and a part of herself she will never get back. I dont want to sound mean or anything, and I know and get along with you Phoenix, really well. I hope you see my comments are born of out of many many long years of being there for people and for women in particular that have never given me a second glance. I'm getting now to the stage where I just wont put up with women that want to be idiots about it. I dont know the full story and I expecially dont know your sis (who is you are anything to go bye is really cool and an awesome person) just for the sake of an old hand and a very scarred heart, get her to see some sense. This guy will ruin her, in the worst possible way.

It's very important to make sure that whatever happens, your sister comes out a winner, and more importantly feels like a winner. As to how to do that, I have no idea, but thanks for reading my rant for 5 minutes. I wish you the absolute best in sorting it out, and I hope that your sister can get through it and be a better person for it. Here's hoping!

Bravo, bravo.

I was getting ready to post my own rant, but I believe that Ninja Mo has covered it all. Truth is found more often in anger than in peace. I believe Ninja has everything covered and I think that Phoenix should heed his advice. Watching a livin being and holding it in your arms and knowing that that being has no future really does change the perspective of things. Good luck...

(It's been a while since we had topics like this in this forum... )

...

Okay. I'm torn between the common sense of what's been said and the need to defend my sister's honour. And to have my say on Ninja's 'rant,' but I'll get to that.

Mithras - being somewhat of an observer myself I know what you're getting at. But I do know for a fact that she has not slept with this guy. It's as simple as she would have told me. Peer pressure reaches everyone on some level, but she doesn't give in easily on the big stuff - she doesn't drink or smoke, and she doesn't go to the hardcore parties. My main concern is that staying with this (string of expletives) guy will eventually change that. Which is why I'm here...telling intimate details to people I've never met...

Ninja, Homonculus - Sorry to burst the bubble - she's been to Cotlands. Goes there every week for school communtiy service sessions. So she's beyond that scare tactic. I do fully understand what you're saying though. The point has to be driven home. But quite frankly she (like I was in high school) has been bombarded with so many talks and seminars and true life stories that the impact just isn't there anymore.

(Actually Ninja, what you said was quite well-put and passionate - after I read it the second time and convinced myself not to see all red. )

And now to the rant. It's a sad truth, but it's something I've noticed over and over again - many, many women are inherently self-destructive in their choice of men. It's something I can't quite understand. I think it must be a personality thing, because i don't think you could really make such a bad mistake more than once.

But I would like to make the point that this is NOT limited to women. At all. Because I have had my fair share of trying to calm heartbroken friends who insist on choosing women who think they're too good for them, who treat them like non-persons. Or women who cheat. And these are the nice guys, the ones that make me wanna go out and find that chick, whoever she is and club her over the head with a blunt metal object because she doesn't care about the damage she's doing.

The nice girls are out there somewhere you guys. And just as jaded as you are.

Phoenix: thank you for not seeing red as you put it All my comments were generalisations and not aimed at your sister. I dont know her at all, but the fact that she goes to Cotlands weekly, bespeaks her character well, and I'm sure she is a lovely person.

My ire was directed more at the idiots that threaten her heart and life for nothing more than a few minutes of pleasure. You know the kind im talking about.

While my argument seemed one sided, yeah I agree, men are equally as bad, willing to give anything for that superbly hot chick, regardless of who or what she is. Just about any comment a guy could make about looks don't matter, seems shallow so I wont bore anyone with it. But you are completely correct, this world is full of misguided idiots, driven by 'something' which is both incomprehensible and inexplicable. I just wish people would wisen up and smell the prozac.

I do hope your sister gets through it, and I want to thank you for posting details to a bunhc of strangers. It shows that you respect our opinions, and also its helpful becuase we cant judge you as we dont know you. I hope at least we have helped in some way, and not scared you away from posting some more

oh, and by the way, if you see any of those 'nice girls', tell em about ol' Ninja for me

Me? scared off? Nah...far too hard-headed for that.
I do want to thank everyone for their advice though - it's helped me to be able to look at this thing from all angles.

As for them nice girls, I have air-mailed about six to the UAE, look for a package from Miss Rain.

One of the things that pisses me off, is guys like this that manipulate girls into thinking that they are the only guy there is.

I've been an "observer" my whole life, getting involved when I only feel it is neccesary, and have seen alot of these guys walk over girls like they are SJIT!, and still the girls go back to them. THese guys have some kind of magic power which makes the girls blind to see the true colors. I'm not jealous, but talk from experience as we convinced one of my friends to leave a guy, and few weeks later, the guy impregenated another girl. It could have been our friend.

Thinking that one day your sister may come home telling your parents she's pregnant(not saying it will, just generalising), and then to know you could have done something to prevent it.

I cannot give you real concrete advise, the best would be to gain her trust and spent more time with her, and yes, tell her how you feel .

You must just say if the PM team must go visit that guy's house...

Hope everything works out fine, will be watching what happens.

Pulse

About what you said Pulse, I believe the answer lies in Biology.

Let me explain: In nature, we see various animals, such as birds or a certain amount of insects, communicating not through sound or sonar or whatever, but through hormones. A specific type of hormone can be used to attract the male of the species or vice-versa. In such cases, the female bird might secrete a certain hormone called pheromone which is picked up by the male's acute sense of smell.

Now to my theory: I think that all the "bastards" out there tend to secrete a heightened amount of testosterone (male sexual hormone), which might explain their "bastard-like" behaviour. On the other side of the equation, we have Phoenix's sister who seems to be a nice girl and decent. These types of girls, might have a heightened subconscious sense of smell, which attracts them to the "bastards's" testosterone. They are attracted even though they do not realise it, since the subconscious is more powerful than the conscious.

I apologise for trying to sound all smart and stuff, it is not my meaning to. I am only simply trying to write things in a way that everyone might understand.

From a women's point of view, having had a fair amount of "bastard" relationships, I also believe it is a subconscious thing. Unfortunately we are brought up in a certain way, and the men that you get to know while you are young have a great influence in your life. If a woman finds the gentle guy first - she will repeat that behaviour, and visa versa.

The problem is that the gentlemen are not as forward and pushy as the bastard, and it takes maturity on her part to realise that. Often the girl thinks that the "quite" guy does not like her. And once a girl is in an abusive situation (physical, sexual or emotional), self-esteem takes a drop and she believes it is her fault - we are brought up always to believe we are at fault :-). It takes a lot of courage to break that vicious cirlcle that follows relathionships like that.

What you also need to enforce with your sister is that you love her, and do not have a problem with her, but that her behaviour is hurting.

I must be honest & say that i was one of those nice guy's that once a long time ago gave one of those "bastardly" woman more "Second Chances" than anybody deserved!

Even if i think back today i don't know why i did that! I mean my hole live i told myself "a person get one chance & that's it" then comes a long miss GirlFriend in Matrix & out the window goes the one chance believes! I gave her 4 chances & evertime she cheated on me again & again! If i have to give a reason i would say i wouldn't let myself believe that i wasn't good enough for this person i mean my hole live people told me nice people get what they deserve & want & acording to me i deserved this girl & i wanted her! After that i realize that nice people don't always get what they want cause it isn't what we deserve we, cause we deserve better!

I've made peace with it, i'm still a nice guy (Luckly my friend kept my head up when i was down & stoped me from becoming one of those "Bastardly" men)

Best Of Luck Phonix! I hope your sister wakes up faster than i did!

If she doesn't believe you on the "Lose a part of yourself if you sleep with someone" PM me & i'll tell her my story! I'm still looking for that part of me!!

One - appologies - I did not have quite the time to sit and read through it all so far, but by what I have - all I can say is that 15 or not at the end of the day it's still your sister's decision what she wants in her life and although it might hurt her, eventually it will teach her how to handle life further on. 'Cause this arse will not be the last - that's for sure. It's sad, but true. Maybe just by giving her a nudge in the right direction, will help clear things up a bit, but don't go and try and take over the whole situation, because although u are sisters ... at the end of the day love is a stupid thing and she might just end up hating you for the things you might have said.

Love is blind!
Sad but true and i'll agree with anime on what she said. All you can do is talk to her and make her realise!

...thanks everyone for helping me out with this. Anime, Juca - the point you make is a good one, one of the main reasons I'm not sure how to go about this whole thing in the first place.

So far, just talking to her and trying to listen is getting me somewhere, I think. I couldn't ask her to just ditch this guy but I think she values my opinion a little more now that I'm showing her i'm trying to see things from her side. As for involving myself any further...well i just don't think the time is right. Not entirely sure it ever will be, but i guess i'll have to wait and see.

Also just to say that I'm going away for the holidays, so i won't be responding in this topic for quite a while. I will be back in a few weeks, with an update if anything changes.

BadBoyT, Pulse - thanks for the sentiment. It's great to see so many of the nice guys are here at PM. And Catz, what you said is just so sadly true.

Oh...one more thing I couldn't resist...



LMAO - i do think you have a VERY good theory...of course you do realize you just said that testosterone is what makes bastards?

Enjoy the holiday season everyone,


- Phoenix

Well its true...
I work at Killarney, a local race course down here in Cape Town (i help with the Drag Racing), and i can tell you from experience when too much testosterone enters a small area tragedy strikes...

----------------UPDATE--------------------

Hey everyone, this is my update as requested...though it was a long time in coming, sorry about that.

Well, nothing's changed. Little Sis and her boy are still together. She talks to me about him more now. I even helped pick out his christmas present. I'm not certain if he's the best thing for her. But on a similar conversation, someone I look up to said something that stuck with me. "You have to love your kids enough to let them make their own mistakes."

And this would never have meant a thing for me if i hadn't gained so much faith in my sister's judgement. She seems to have got this guy on a leash somehow. He's being good. And more than that he seems happy to be good. Maybe I underestimated her. And him. But for now I'm feeling just daring enough to be optimistic.

But I'd like to thank all the PM peeps who helped out again for putting up with my noisy, unsavoury rants.

Thanks guys. And peace out.

Good. I am happy things are working out for the best...

** The young will be taught by the mistakes they make **

Hi Read you first and last post and some of the others and although you say your sister seems to have him on a leach, i'd say he should still not be trusted. The fact that he does drugs is bad enough and i've seen enough kids say.. "'ye, i'll quit tomorrow no problem" and they still on drugs. Drugs is bad dewd and I hope ur sis doesn't get into it.

US

More on the drugs issue.

As to what US said, you can't just stop. I have a family member you has been in and out of rahab for the past few years now. This person also did not even finish high school. According to what others say, there does not seem to be much that he will ever stop. Worse is, this person's parents support him, even when in rehab, and this person comes out of rehab and steal money/other stuff again from them again.