Anti-Americanism Is Racist Envy
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/global/20...3/0721/017.html
Anti-Americanism is the prevailing disease of intellectuals today. Like other diseases, it doesn't have to be logical or rational. But, like other diseases, it has a syndrome--a concurrent set of underlying symptoms that are also causes.
First, an unadmitted contempt for democracy. The U.S. is the world's most successful democracy.
(snip)
It is this feature that intellectuals--especially in Europe--find embittering. They know they must genuflect to democracy as a system. They cannot openly admit that an entire people--especially one comprising nearly 300 million, who enjoy all the freedoms--can be mistaken.
(snip)
The truth is, on the European Continent there is little experience of working democracy. Italy and Germany have had democracy only since the late 1940s; Spain, since the 1960s. France is not a democracy; it is a republic run by bureaucratic and party elites, whose errors are dealt with by strikes, street riots and blockades instead of by votes. Elements of the French system are being imposed throughout the EU, even in countries such as Denmark and Sweden that have long practiced democracy with success. In a French-style pseudodemocracy, intellectuals have considerable influence, at both government and street levels. In a true democracy, intellectuals are no more powerful than their arguments.
This is true. Europe is very new to the concept of democracy. The United States have had a democracy for hundreds of years, but European countries are still infants when it comes to that. And still they think they are more experienced and knowledgable... Tsk tsk.
--Jeslek
• Second, anti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism. An astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots. It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history. You might think, therefore, that European elites would seek to learn something from such a successful process. Not at all: The view is that sophisticated, civilized Europe has nothing to learn from "adolescent" America. What these Euro-elites particularly abhor is the way in which the framers of the Constitution made every effort to involve the population through the process of public debates, town meetings and ratification votes--and this at a time when Europe was still governed (for the most part) by the absolute sovereigns of the ancien régime.
Once again he hits the nail on the head.
--Jeslek
This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly "know-nothing" President George W. Bush and his "gung ho" Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity of any kind and is therefore at the mercy of commercial forces.
It is amazing how everyone in the rest of the world has opinions about the United States, yet they've never been there. And not to mention they are all standing in lines for immigration cards. Eh.
--Jeslek
• Third, European elites tend to look at Americans as a subcivilized mass, whose function is to be obedient consumers in a system run by big business. The role of competition in U.S. economic life--and in every other aspect of life--is ignored, because competition is something Continental Europeans like to keep to a minimum and under careful control.
Although Americans are seen as highly materialistic consumers, they are also despised and feared for their spiritual interests, their participation in religious worship and their subscription to creeds of morality. Europeans see no inconsistency in their condemnation of the U.S. for being at one and the same time paganly unethical and morally zealous.
The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling.
A very well written article I think.
--Jeslek
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An article written by an American, for an American magazine marketed at American consumers!
Wipe this shit out of your eyes, "envy of American wealth, power, success and determination" is hardly the reason you are hated.
*if my fucking 3g cap had not happened I would supply evidence*
END!
Wipe this shit out of your eyes, "envy of American wealth, power, success and determination" is hardly the reason you are hated.
*if my fucking 3g cap had not happened I would supply evidence*
END!
3g cap? what?
I don't quite get why you can't show evidence, but regardless, I don't agree with you. When my friend makes more money than I do, I am jealous and I work harder. Jealousy is a human trait, and seeing a nation as successful as the United States has got to annoy some people.
I don't quite get why you can't show evidence, but regardless, I don't agree with you. When my friend makes more money than I do, I am jealous and I work harder. Jealousy is a human trait, and seeing a nation as successful as the United States has got to annoy some people.
Not to the point of international hate that results in the death of thousands of US civilians. There is a whole lot more to anti-US sentiment than the trivial reasons mentioned in the article.
note: I am on ADSL. Telkom puts a 3gig cap on its users. I believe I have reached mine and am unable to connect to international sites. As you have used right wing media to put across a point I will counter it with my resources.
END!
note: I am on ADSL. Telkom puts a 3gig cap on its users. I believe I have reached mine and am unable to connect to international sites. As you have used right wing media to put across a point I will counter it with my resources.
END!
if you get jealous because your friend makes more money than you do, then you have personal issues.
edit -- was a bit too slow concerning the 3GB cap issue.
edit -- was a bit too slow concerning the 3GB cap issue.
QUOTE(aquadog @ Aug 27 2003, 10:15 AM)
if you get jealous because your friend makes more money than you do, then you have personal issues.
edit -- was a bit too slow concerning the 3GB cap issue.
edit -- was a bit too slow concerning the 3GB cap issue.
aquadog, don't be an idiot. I get jealous, but that is what drives me to work harder and do better. Competition. It is a friendly competition.
I have made a deal with my friend. We're both in university. The second best IT university in the world. (MIT is first but we couldn't get in.) When we graduate, we will make a race for $1,000,000 in assets. The first person to reach that mark buys the other friend a Corvette of his or her choice (we both like Corvettes). The second person to reach that mark has to buy the first friend a Dodge Viper.
Friendly competition, and that is what drives us.
And that 3GB cap sounds retarded. That is 100 MB a day! I do 3GB a DAY on my cable line.
QUOTE(Jeslek @ Aug 27 2003, 04:05 PM)
Jealousy is a human trait, and seeing a nation as successful as the United States has got to annoy some people.
Nope, sorry. Traits are an inherited and mixed form of genetic control. Jealousy is a human-bred emotion, which is why it's pathetic.
Competition issue: Ooo, so no matter what happens, both of you get a big fancy car. Well, isn't that good motivation. Why are you always after the materialistic things? How about the loser just take the winner out and show him a good time at the place of his choice?
Jealousy towards the US: I don't get what there is to be jealous about, be it over the US or any other country. We've got enough on our daily plates without worrying about keeping up with the Jones's. Not that we're behind, mind you.
Edit: Just reading the title again...Anti-Americanism is Racist Envy?!! So you guys are a race on your own now? I don't think the majority of the folks will agree to that...
Nope, sorry. Traits are an inherited and mixed form of genetic control. Jealousy is a human-bred emotion, which is why it's pathetic.
You're separating fly shit from pepper.
Competition issue: Ooo, so no matter what happens, both of you get a big fancy car. Well, isn't that good motivation. Why are you always after the materialistic things? How about the loser just take the winner out and show him a good time at the place of his choice?
No. We do that anyways. We don't want to do something this small for such a milestone. And I'll remember that snide remark about materialistic things. The reason? Because that is what we're discussing right now.
Edit: Just reading the title again...Anti-Americanism is Racist Envy?!! So you guys are a race on your own now? I don't think the majority of the folks will agree to that...
That was the title yes. And you're once again separating fly shit from pepper.
You're separating fly shit from pepper.
Competition issue: Ooo, so no matter what happens, both of you get a big fancy car. Well, isn't that good motivation. Why are you always after the materialistic things? How about the loser just take the winner out and show him a good time at the place of his choice?
No. We do that anyways. We don't want to do something this small for such a milestone. And I'll remember that snide remark about materialistic things. The reason? Because that is what we're discussing right now.
Edit: Just reading the title again...Anti-Americanism is Racist Envy?!! So you guys are a race on your own now? I don't think the majority of the folks will agree to that...
That was the title yes. And you're once again separating fly shit from pepper.
Ok, just to be fair, if you're not prepared to have your comments dissected, try making them more subtle.
Genetic inheritance patterns and human-adopted behaviour (eg jealousy) are about as far apart as can be. The former is hardwired in and there's very little you can do about it. The latter is learned and formed mostly by our environment and the paths we choose.
Yes, do remember the materialism remark. Wasn't meant to be snide in any way, but was mentioned because it strikes me as a good indication as to what you're considering to be more important in your life. Regardless of whether I have the same "things" as someone or not, I don't use that as an indication of which one of us is better off in any way, whether we're talking possession or humanity.
RE the title, the point I was trying to make is that America is a country, and classifying all the different people in there as a seperate race is unfair to them and a slight against everyone who's not from there. Don't know if that's what your intention was, but that's what it sounded like. Look up your definition of race, and keep in mind that nowadays it's used for very little when discussing issues, because race has nothing to do with them.
And I'm still asking why people would be jealous of Americans. Most folks are quite proud of their nationalities and country's history, because it gives them a sense of belonging. If you have the will and the way, very little is impossible to reach for and acquire, no matter where you come from.
Genetic inheritance patterns and human-adopted behaviour (eg jealousy) are about as far apart as can be. The former is hardwired in and there's very little you can do about it. The latter is learned and formed mostly by our environment and the paths we choose.
Yes, do remember the materialism remark. Wasn't meant to be snide in any way, but was mentioned because it strikes me as a good indication as to what you're considering to be more important in your life. Regardless of whether I have the same "things" as someone or not, I don't use that as an indication of which one of us is better off in any way, whether we're talking possession or humanity.
RE the title, the point I was trying to make is that America is a country, and classifying all the different people in there as a seperate race is unfair to them and a slight against everyone who's not from there. Don't know if that's what your intention was, but that's what it sounded like. Look up your definition of race, and keep in mind that nowadays it's used for very little when discussing issues, because race has nothing to do with them.
And I'm still asking why people would be jealous of Americans. Most folks are quite proud of their nationalities and country's history, because it gives them a sense of belonging. If you have the will and the way, very little is impossible to reach for and acquire, no matter where you come from.
Hang five, Jeslek, it suites you fine to be a pedantic git but when others pull your statements apart you pass them off.
Just remember, the US has a population of 270 million, not 200 million
END!
Just remember, the US has a population of 270 million, not 200 million
END!
And I'm still asking why people would be jealous of Americans.
Read the first post.
Most folks are quite proud of their nationalities and country's history, because it gives them a sense of belonging. If you have the will and the way, very little is impossible to reach for and acquire, no matter where you come from. I thought it was a bad thing to be patriotic...
driver: Don't be a retard. That moron was bitching about ignorance while he was displaying ignorance at its best. Rakarth is merely debating the definitions for the sake or arguing.
Read the first post.
Most folks are quite proud of their nationalities and country's history, because it gives them a sense of belonging. If you have the will and the way, very little is impossible to reach for and acquire, no matter where you come from. I thought it was a bad thing to be patriotic...
driver: Don't be a retard. That moron was bitching about ignorance while he was displaying ignorance at its best. Rakarth is merely debating the definitions for the sake or arguing.
QUOTE
Anti-Americanism is the prevailing disease of intellectuals today. Like other diseases, it doesn't have to be logical or rational. But, like other diseases, it has a syndrome--a concurrent set of underlying symptoms that are also causes.
First, an unadmitted contempt for democracy. The U.S. is the world's most successful democracy.
(snip)
It is this feature that intellectuals--especially in Europe--find embittering. They know they must genuflect to democracy as a system. They cannot openly admit that an entire people--especially one comprising nearly 300 million, who enjoy all the freedoms--can be mistaken.
First, an unadmitted contempt for democracy. The U.S. is the world's most successful democracy.
(snip)
It is this feature that intellectuals--especially in Europe--find embittering. They know they must genuflect to democracy as a system. They cannot openly admit that an entire people--especially one comprising nearly 300 million, who enjoy all the freedoms--can be mistaken.
America may once have been the shining example of what democracy should be, but alas, it lost that title long ago... I find myself lost in giggling fits every time I see Gee dubya preaching about America being the "greatest democracy on earth". The last elections made it plain to see that as in most other democracies, the position of president can be bought by whichever moron has the most money and political connections.
QUOTE
The truth is, on the European Continent there is little experience of working democracy. Italy and Germany have had democracy only since the late 1940s; Spain, since the 1960s. France is not a democracy; it is a republic run by bureaucratic and party elites, whose errors are dealt with by strikes, street riots and blockades instead of by votes. Elements of the French system are being imposed throughout the EU, even in countries such as Denmark and Sweden that have long practiced democracy with success. In a French-style pseudodemocracy, intellectuals have considerable influence, at both government and street levels. In a true democracy, intellectuals are no more powerful than their arguments.
Well it may be true that the European democracies are a lot younger than America's, but why is that considered a bad thing? Many of those countries have learned from the mistakes that America made, and now have constitutions that make America's look like a joke... That aside, anti-Americanism has very little to do with "democracy jealousy"... No planes were flown into towers in Denmark or Sweden were they? So how can any anti-Americanism be attributed to this? South Africa's democracy is said to be the closest to a perfect democracy ever created, yet no 747's have been spotted circling our cities...
QUOTE
This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly "know-nothing" President George W. Bush and his "gung ho" Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity of any kind and is therefore at the mercy of commercial forces.
It is amazing how everyone in the rest of the world has opinions about the United States, yet they've never been there. And not to mention they are all standing in lines for immigration cards. Eh.
--Jeslek
It is amazing how everyone in the rest of the world has opinions about the United States, yet they've never been there. And not to mention they are all standing in lines for immigration cards. Eh.
--Jeslek
"supposedly 'know-nothing'"... Are you joking? You ARE joking arent you? I hope so... That aside, any "cultural racism" directed at him is simply directed the because he is the figure-head of what the people hate, that and he make's himself such an easy target every time he opens his mouth...
The people standing in queues for green cards are standing there because their own countries are in ruins, and in most cases this can be direcly attributed to America itself. Whether it is manifested direcly through American policy, or the policy of the American controlled World Bank, America is the cause for most of the suffering in the third world, and everyone is starting to wake up to that fact... The kitchen is going to start getting a LOT hotter for America.
QUOTE
• Third, European elites tend to look at Americans as a subcivilized mass, whose function is to be obedient consumers in a system run by big business. The role of competition in U.S. economic life--and in every other aspect of life--is ignored, because competition is something Continental Europeans like to keep to a minimum and under careful control.
Although Americans are seen as highly materialistic consumers, they are also despised and feared for their spiritual interests, their participation in religious worship and their subscription to creeds of morality. Europeans see no inconsistency in their condemnation of the U.S. for being at one and the same time paganly unethical and morally zealous.
The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling.
A very well written article I think.
--Jeslek
Although Americans are seen as highly materialistic consumers, they are also despised and feared for their spiritual interests, their participation in religious worship and their subscription to creeds of morality. Europeans see no inconsistency in their condemnation of the U.S. for being at one and the same time paganly unethical and morally zealous.
The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling.
A very well written article I think.
--Jeslek
Jeeeeeeeeesus, is there even any point in arguing this?
Probably the most hated aspect of the so called "Americana" is NOT their democracy, success, determination, wealth or power (I do in fact doubt that any of these are the objects of any virulent envy). It is instead their insistence on forcing their own views on people who do not share, need or want it... Take for example the situation in Europe where the people are demanding that GM food be labeled as such, America is in the background trying to force the EU to change the laws so their products wont be identified and recognised as undesirable. This kind of thing is becoming more and more apparent, in particular it can be seen in Iraq where the largest portion of the population want a theocracy and not a democracy. Yet, will the US even consider the opinion of the people?
The article says jealousy drives Anti-Americanism, why is it then that the people of the countries in which America is trying to establish it's form of democracy are revolting against the US? American soldiers are ending up in body-bags every day because the people want nothing to do with it... Surely if they were jealous, they would welcome their so-called "saviours", embracing their values (and I use the word "values" losely) and political rhetoric.?!
Contempt is the word used to describe attitudes towards America in the article. It is however never used to describe American attitudes towards anything un-American. Why is that?
In truth, I dont hate America or the American people. I dont envy them either... I do however feel sorry for a people who are preached at about democracy by the same man who lied straight to them... It just such a pity that Americans decided to give up their ability to think for themselves when the media took over the job...
QUOTE
Edit: Just reading the title again...Anti-Americanism is Racist Envy?!! So you guys are a race on your own now? I don't think the majority of the folks will agree to that...
Hmm, racism...one question, when did skin colour become an issue of jealousy when it's more of an economic issue? What do we call ourselves then, the green paper men from earth?
QUOTE
I thought it was a bad thing to be patriotic...
Hmm, that depends entirely on your definition of it, alot of americans these days are blasted with paranoid propaganda, which makes patriotism something forced. Take into account that the Homeland Security policies do tend to make you a bit of a drone for your country, and you know what kind of support drones give to the hive.
As for the jealousy bit, I definitely envy americans for their economic status, but I'd hate to live in the place because of their attitude towards immigrants and non-americans. Now patriotism doesn't look so good doesn't it?
QUOTE(Jeslek @ Aug 27 2003, 08:21 PM)
And I'm still asking why people would be jealous of Americans.
Read the first post.
Most folks are quite proud of their nationalities and country's history, because it gives them a sense of belonging. If you have the will and the way, very little is impossible to reach for and acquire, no matter where you come from. I thought it was a bad thing to be patriotic...
driver: Don't be a retard. That moron was bitching about ignorance while he was displaying ignorance at its best. Rakarth is merely debating the definitions for the sake or arguing.
Read the first post.
Most folks are quite proud of their nationalities and country's history, because it gives them a sense of belonging. If you have the will and the way, very little is impossible to reach for and acquire, no matter where you come from. I thought it was a bad thing to be patriotic...
driver: Don't be a retard. That moron was bitching about ignorance while he was displaying ignorance at its best. Rakarth is merely debating the definitions for the sake or arguing.
Yes, I can read, I'm waiting to hear from the people, not an article. Who around here is jealous of Americans, and why?
Patriotic, good. Xenophobic, not good.
Driver = not retard.
Jeslek = upset when his points are counter-argued. And yes, this is an argument-based part of the forum; why shouldn't I argue? Don't let's get personal, I never called you a moron or ignorant now, did I?
I'm wondering why articles like the one you mentioned are written. Seems very defensive to me, particularly given its origin. Not saying the author is biased, but what prompts a man to write such a strong viewpoint?
QUOTE
In truth, I dont hate America or the American people. I dont envy them either... I do however feel sorry for a people who are preached at about democracy by the same man who lied straight to them... It just such a pity that Americans decided to give up their ability to think for themselves when the media took over the job...
This is probably one of the most well-constructed arguments, nutshelled in a paragraph, that I've ever read.
Regardless of your views, yay or nay for America, Tibet, the Comores or Timbuktu, I challenge anyone to dispute the above. The media is a global dinosaur with big, big teeth. And mama dinosaur was born in the states.
Very insightful, Jura, and of course two thumbs for DW.
I'd like to add to that by reflecting that the media has more influence in terms of twisting views and opinions in the US than in any other country. I offer this opinion by drawing on the fact that US news and informative programs seem to only offer the US perspective on matters.
I'd like to add to that by reflecting that the media has more influence in terms of twisting views and opinions in the US than in any other country. I offer this opinion by drawing on the fact that US news and informative programs seem to only offer the US perspective on matters.
Thanks Rakarth.
When I worked as a news journalist, we were always aware of two truths:
1. Never believe everything you read.
2. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
When I worked as a news journalist, we were always aware of two truths:
1. Never believe everything you read.
2. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Although Britain may be America's lap dog, sitting, staying and playing dead at America's behest, I still thank <insert name of relevant god/god's> every day that when the war on Iraq started, SABC switched from broadcasting CNN at night to broadcasting BBC.
The BBC has really been tearing into the Blair headed administration, and by association, the Bush headed dictatorship. Its refreshing to see that not ALL media institutions and reporter's have "sold their soul" to the Bush...
And now for a quote... In this case my OWN, whaaaahahahahaha
"Sure, Ill follow Bushes order's, but only if its burning"
I rule...
The BBC has really been tearing into the Blair headed administration, and by association, the Bush headed dictatorship. Its refreshing to see that not ALL media institutions and reporter's have "sold their soul" to the Bush...
And now for a quote... In this case my OWN, whaaaahahahahaha
"Sure, Ill follow Bushes order's, but only if its burning"
I rule...
Speaking from tragic experience <insert clickable anti-smilie>, the reporters have absolutely no say whatsoever. Although you're right, DW, it galls me that media management - not editorship level - determines content. The hacks who actually hit the ground sniffling for stories see their words twisted into unrecognisable reader-friendly bits of fluff. Even if the fluff appears contentious, against-the-grain and avant-garde on the surface.
So, frankly, no matter what you read it's never, ever the full story. Obvious, I know, but irritating.
I have a personal/professional axe to grind in that department though, so apart from the above, all hail the brave BBC teams
So, frankly, no matter what you read it's never, ever the full story. Obvious, I know, but irritating.
I have a personal/professional axe to grind in that department though, so apart from the above, all hail the brave BBC teams
You are a stupid american punk ass. Jeez Envy I really want to be the target of of most of the world hate oh pleeeease can i.
Also what a democracy only 30% of you hillbillies acctually voted.
And about the corvette that is proberbly the single most materialistic and off topic bull shit I have ever heard in my life.
Come on why dont you reply to some of raks posts instead of just saying fly shit, pepper or wahtever crap you have to say.
You truly are a moronic excuse for an idiot's piece of shit
Also what a democracy only 30% of you hillbillies acctually voted.
And about the corvette that is proberbly the single most materialistic and off topic bull shit I have ever heard in my life.
Come on why dont you reply to some of raks posts instead of just saying fly shit, pepper or wahtever crap you have to say.
You truly are a moronic excuse for an idiot's piece of shit
This article is rather good, and I smiled when I read it. It raises good points, most of which I agree with. Anti-Americanism IS a disease of the psuedo-intellectual, and its good to see someone put this sentiment into words. ANy country where I can get a 2mb line with a 50gb cap for $40 a month is good with me.
What a load of &%$# crap !!!
Its the same thing about Bush and his reason as why one of their former best friends attacked the USA. .............. his reason, Osama and his terrorist friends attacked the US because they hate freedom and America is all about freedom.
Just like this everybody hate america because they are jealous so is his reason he gave the world about Osama a load of crap.
Osama attacked the US because he wants freedom from the american occupiers, Osama with the help of the americans fought a war for 10 years trying to get freedom from the Russians in Afghanistan and now all of a sudden he hates freedom
I have everything that the americans have, maybe it is a bit more expensive but the last place on earth I will move to is the USA.
Its not going so good as they want you to believe, i watch american news everyday, that country is in a load of crap.
Sure you get those rich people that lives in big houses and drive the fancy cars but there more people that works their butts off to be able to make a decent living and just as many that has to beg for food.
Trust me if I say that the US is in very big economical crap
Its the same thing about Bush and his reason as why one of their former best friends attacked the USA. .............. his reason, Osama and his terrorist friends attacked the US because they hate freedom and America is all about freedom.
Just like this everybody hate america because they are jealous so is his reason he gave the world about Osama a load of crap.
Osama attacked the US because he wants freedom from the american occupiers, Osama with the help of the americans fought a war for 10 years trying to get freedom from the Russians in Afghanistan and now all of a sudden he hates freedom
I have everything that the americans have, maybe it is a bit more expensive but the last place on earth I will move to is the USA.
Its not going so good as they want you to believe, i watch american news everyday, that country is in a load of crap.
Sure you get those rich people that lives in big houses and drive the fancy cars but there more people that works their butts off to be able to make a decent living and just as many that has to beg for food.
Trust me if I say that the US is in very big economical crap
Will SOMEONE please re-read the topic and explain to me how any form of Anti-Americanism is a form of racism? I'm still having trouble with that one...
QUOTE(rakarth @ Aug 28 2003, 06:28 AM)
Will SOMEONE please re-read the topic and explain to me how any form of Anti-Americanism is a form of racism? I'm still having trouble with that one...
Could it be That Jeslek thinks because we are all in africa, we are all black?
And if you are in the middle east, everyone there is arab, or in the east everyone is asian?
The author harps on about anti-Americanism being a sort of 'cultural racism’; would I be wrong in saying that that is basically the same as xenophobia?
He even has the cheek to comment about European elites not knowing much about US history or culture. But he fails to see that this very same 'cultural racism' and ignorance of culture is evident in just about every single one of his fellow Americans.
When the problems started two years ago a massive spotlight was shone on Islam and the Middle East. The average American knew so little about what Islam and its people stand for that their very friends and neighbors who were Muslims became suspects as the media laid out its propaganda about the evil terrorists.
Right wing Christian rhetoric wormed its way into mainstream media and as some might know GW has strong ties with this type so it was reflected in his speeches.
It was only much later when documentaries on CNN and BBC started looking into Islam and Middle East sects that the US public started to wise up about these people and their culture.
The author speaks of the US model for working democracy. I will give him credit there, but what he does not consider is that the US and its people have only been on that continent a few hundred years.
Today’s political systems in Europe are the result of thousands of years of history that have separated and carved the boundaries in the land. In recent times two world wars were fought on that soil which also had a significant impact on the political climate we see today.
Another interesting fact that is left out in his ramblings on about democracy is that it was only 30 odd years ago that the African man had a say in the US!
I like his use of the words ‘sub-civilized mass’ to describe what he believes Europeans think of Americans. The irony being is the way in which the US views the likes of Africa, South America and the Middle East. And please note before anyone replies, a culture difference does constitute sub-civilization!
In closing the author states that “Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical”. Oh really now, is it, childish? Would anyone like some of my Freedom toast with a side of Freedom fries? Did he also say contradiction? Hello China my big trade partner, Fuck you, Cuba, here are some sanctions and trade embargos you filthy communists! Racist? Your policing system has been profiling for years! Factually absurd? Can anyone here say Weapons of Mass Destruction?
What I advise is pull your head out of your extraordinarily conceited rectal passage and have a real good look at the words used above. Now reconsider why anti-Americanism is rife in the world today and you will realize that all these traits mentioned are synonymous with American attitudes and policy towards everyone else in this world.
And until that is realized and you change the way you conduct your self around the world, anti-American sentiment will continue to grow and, eventually, the rich kid on the block will have a black eye and no more friends to play with!!
END!
He even has the cheek to comment about European elites not knowing much about US history or culture. But he fails to see that this very same 'cultural racism' and ignorance of culture is evident in just about every single one of his fellow Americans.
When the problems started two years ago a massive spotlight was shone on Islam and the Middle East. The average American knew so little about what Islam and its people stand for that their very friends and neighbors who were Muslims became suspects as the media laid out its propaganda about the evil terrorists.
Right wing Christian rhetoric wormed its way into mainstream media and as some might know GW has strong ties with this type so it was reflected in his speeches.
It was only much later when documentaries on CNN and BBC started looking into Islam and Middle East sects that the US public started to wise up about these people and their culture.
The author speaks of the US model for working democracy. I will give him credit there, but what he does not consider is that the US and its people have only been on that continent a few hundred years.
Today’s political systems in Europe are the result of thousands of years of history that have separated and carved the boundaries in the land. In recent times two world wars were fought on that soil which also had a significant impact on the political climate we see today.
Another interesting fact that is left out in his ramblings on about democracy is that it was only 30 odd years ago that the African man had a say in the US!
I like his use of the words ‘sub-civilized mass’ to describe what he believes Europeans think of Americans. The irony being is the way in which the US views the likes of Africa, South America and the Middle East. And please note before anyone replies, a culture difference does constitute sub-civilization!
In closing the author states that “Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical”. Oh really now, is it, childish? Would anyone like some of my Freedom toast with a side of Freedom fries? Did he also say contradiction? Hello China my big trade partner, Fuck you, Cuba, here are some sanctions and trade embargos you filthy communists! Racist? Your policing system has been profiling for years! Factually absurd? Can anyone here say Weapons of Mass Destruction?
What I advise is pull your head out of your extraordinarily conceited rectal passage and have a real good look at the words used above. Now reconsider why anti-Americanism is rife in the world today and you will realize that all these traits mentioned are synonymous with American attitudes and policy towards everyone else in this world.
And until that is realized and you change the way you conduct your self around the world, anti-American sentiment will continue to grow and, eventually, the rich kid on the block will have a black eye and no more friends to play with!!
END!
Jeslek you fail to realise the point what poeple are saying. IT is not the wealth the crime rate or the fancy cars you drive that makes others hate you. Most poeple are content with their lot as they are not so commercially materialistic. I have been there and enjoyed it and i liked San Fran the most. The thing is ,it is not your democracy or great constitution that irk people but your total apathetic view of the world and the arrogance that you are the best. the point is we know that, but you would be much greater if you were humble about it.
oh yeah... I am real jealous!!!
Just like the rest of the "Anti American" based threads, this one is going absolutely nowhere. I didn't bother to read all of that shit on the first page but it's something that can be solved and brought to a logical conclusion by anyone who has a brain.
Ishikawa, you probably think that picture is authentic, don't you? *I wouldn't be surprised*
Ishikawa, you probably think that picture is authentic, don't you? *I wouldn't be surprised*
what ever man!!!!
i CAN recognise a blatantly faked picture you know!!
bet u rushed to open it though, eh?
he he he eh
but then again, taking pot shots below the belt in an arguement are a sure signs that you are desperate... and actually have nothing of any
*cough*
bet u rushed to open it though, eh?
he he he eh
but then again, taking pot shots below the belt in an arguement are a sure signs that you are desperate... and actually have nothing of any
*cough*
QUOTE(Antish @ Aug 28 2003, 06:24 PM)
Just like the rest of the "Anti American" based threads, this one is going absolutely nowhere. I didn't bother to read all of that shit on the first page but it's something that can be solved and brought to a logical conclusion by anyone who has a brain.
I disagree, Antish, read the article, make out what it says and understand where it is soming from.
Buy into it or not, you should not pass it off. It is a well written piece and it does hold a lot of 'truth' for large proportion of the population that all this argument is revolving around.
It could have been thrown into one of the other threads but I fear it would have been drowned out with all the other concurrent arguments. I have tried to address the article and the statements made their-in. Forget the personal insults etc. take on what was posted, not who posted it.
Lets go from here.
END!
Keep it clean people
Wow Jeslek it seems the propaganda has really worked wonders on you hasn't it. The very fact that the article is by an American should already raise questions about its validity. Anyway Ameria is by far not the place that Americans would like to believe it is themselves. I know trust me. Its in the small things like the unfounded dislike for the country right next to you which is evidence of how closed minded you can becoming living in such a Country.
One thing I know though, is that America wasn't built on the backs of Americans as Americans are a lot of different races, nationalities etc, but by a lot of other people from somewhere else. Classic example if the whole 'Hollywood' thing in Amreica. I mean Sony which owns a sizeable percentage of the studios in Hollywood is from Japan. The great companies of America like the semiconductor ones like intel etc, got almost all their engineers in the heyday are from other countries. Andy Groove himself was not from America. There are a host of other companies that I can go on about, but I think you get the picture.
Point is, please do not be blinded by the so called greatness of America. You should travel out to different areas sometimes (And no Detroit isn't a Country). Go to the east (Japan mainly if you want) and get a feel for life there. People who actually achieve and make things happen, even though there's far fewer of them than Americans. Even after what America did to them they are still in a better position than America by quiet a margin.
One thing I know though, is that America wasn't built on the backs of Americans as Americans are a lot of different races, nationalities etc, but by a lot of other people from somewhere else. Classic example if the whole 'Hollywood' thing in Amreica. I mean Sony which owns a sizeable percentage of the studios in Hollywood is from Japan. The great companies of America like the semiconductor ones like intel etc, got almost all their engineers in the heyday are from other countries. Andy Groove himself was not from America. There are a host of other companies that I can go on about, but I think you get the picture.
Point is, please do not be blinded by the so called greatness of America. You should travel out to different areas sometimes (And no Detroit isn't a Country). Go to the east (Japan mainly if you want) and get a feel for life there. People who actually achieve and make things happen, even though there's far fewer of them than Americans. Even after what America did to them they are still in a better position than America by quiet a margin.
The BBC hosted a unique global television debate about America's place in the world with 10 other national broadcasters.
As part of the What The World Thinks of America programme, 11,000 people in the UK, France, Russia, Indonesia, South Korea, Jordan, Australia, Canada, Israel, Brazil and the US responded to a poll asking their views and opinions on America.
The respondents were asked about their general attitudes towards America and US President George Bush.
The poll also posed a range of other questions on America's foreign policy, military power, cultural influences and economic might.
Go here to read more.
As part of the What The World Thinks of America programme, 11,000 people in the UK, France, Russia, Indonesia, South Korea, Jordan, Australia, Canada, Israel, Brazil and the US responded to a poll asking their views and opinions on America.
The respondents were asked about their general attitudes towards America and US President George Bush.
The poll also posed a range of other questions on America's foreign policy, military power, cultural influences and economic might.
Go here to read more.
Oh my god, Im sore from laughing now...
44% of American think the US is the most cultured country in the world...
44% of American think the US is the most cultured country in the world...
This is getting really fucking old now...
We're from SA Jeslek....we're not gonna grab a bud and sit 'round a fire and start singing "The Star-Spangled Banner"
Also u might note that this is plantermars.co.za not .com
And frankly I couldn't give a shit...so please...stop shoving the stars and stripes down our throats !
We're from SA Jeslek....we're not gonna grab a bud and sit 'round a fire and start singing "The Star-Spangled Banner"
Also u might note that this is plantermars.co.za not .com
And frankly I couldn't give a shit...so please...stop shoving the stars and stripes down our throats !
QUOTE(Bergie @ Aug 30 2003, 12:50 PM)
This is getting really fucking old now...
We're from SA Jeslek....we're not gonna grab a bud and sit 'round a fire and start singing "The Star-Spangled Banner"
Also u might note that this is plantermars.co.za not .com
And frankly I couldn't give a shit...so please...stop shoving the stars and stripes down our throats !
We're from SA Jeslek....we're not gonna grab a bud and sit 'round a fire and start singing "The Star-Spangled Banner"
Also u might note that this is plantermars.co.za not .com
And frankly I couldn't give a shit...so please...stop shoving the stars and stripes down our throats !
w000t...
Tho I am still having fun
QUOTE
We're from SA Jeslek....we're not gonna grab a bud and sit 'round a fire and start singing "The Star-Spangled Banner"
Also u might note that this is plantermars.co.za not .com
And frankly I couldn't give a shit...so please...stop shoving the stars and stripes down our throats !
Also u might note that this is plantermars.co.za not .com
And frankly I couldn't give a shit...so please...stop shoving the stars and stripes down our throats !
Personally I see no problem with "foreigners" if I have to class people, coming onto PlanetMars and enjoying the great forums. PlanetMars only grows as a result, which is definitely a good thing. I see no problem with Jeslek (I happen to know him slightly more than the rest of you, I only found that out this morning) participating, it's great to have someone so patriotic on the boards. He's what ol' driver would be if he was an american *ducks*. A nice change
Mind giving us the source of that poll, Darkwing? I'm interested to see. Bear in mind if that's completely accurate which it undoubtedly isn't, there are another 56%.
Smacker- I happen to have stumbled across a few of David Icke's books. He is a nihilist at the most extreme, I don't know whether to take him all that seriously or not.
Thats from the link Neo provided to the BBC's poll results... You can go check it out for yourself here.
Again I ask Antish, have you actually read any of David Icke's books in their entirety? The way you say you "stumbled" on to them makes me believe in this case you may be the kind of person who reads book reviews as though they were actual books...
Again I ask Antish, have you actually read any of David Icke's books in their entirety? The way you say you "stumbled" on to them makes me believe in this case you may be the kind of person who reads book reviews as though they were actual books...
"Stumbled upon" is a phrase commonly used in the english language to explain that the object(s) in question (Which are books in this case) were not intended to be found or were not sought after. Perhaps you should take a look in the reading poison thread, however if you enjoy believing I'm lying or would make up something of the sort, then do carry on thinking I flicked through a book review.
And you still havent answered the actual question...
Have you read any of his books in their entirety?
Stumbled on could also mean tripped over. Did you trip on the book and make a booboo? Or did you read the book?
Have you read any of his books in their entirety?
Stumbled on could also mean tripped over. Did you trip on the book and make a booboo? Or did you read the book?
Also, I NEVER said you were lying about anything... I was asking if you had read it...
Subtle difference, I know.
Subtle difference, I know.
Don't get all tied up over this, anti-americanism is jealousy, most countries are doing their damdest to catch up and all the kids are going gangsta to be more like their american pop and rap start idols..... Just deal with is.
Paul
www.stungun16.com
Paul
www.stungun16.com
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