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Nitro Guy
I'm sick of hearing pessimists on the forum slapping SA on the wrists for everything and complain about everything.... this is for you.... something to be positive about...
QUOTE
This is the letter Alan Knott-Craig (MD of iBurst) sent to his team:

Hi guys,

2008 has certainly started with a bang! The future was rosy on 31 December 2007, but suddenly everyone is buying candles and researching property in Perth!

A combination of recession in the USA, global equity market negativity, high interest rates, the National Credit Act and power outages have combined to create the perfect storm.

But don’t panic!

This is not the first time there’s been doom and gloom. Every few years the same thing happens. We experience massive economic growth, everyone is optimistic and buying Nescafe Gold, and holiday homes, and Merc’s. The positivity gets ahead of itself and the economy overheats, and then panic sets in because the economy seems to be collapsing when in actual fact it’s simply making an adjustment back to a reasonable level.

It happened in 1989, when SA defaulted on its international loans and the stock market and Rand crashed, it happened in 1994 when the ANC took power and everyone thought war would break out, it happened in 1998 when interest rates hit 25% and you couldn’t give away your house, and it happened in 2001 when a fairly unstable guy by the name of Osama arranged for 2 Boeings to fly into the tallest buildings in New York!

On each of those occasions everyone thought it was the end of the world and that there was no light in sight. And on each occasion, believe it or not, the world did not actually end, it recovered and in fact things continued to get better.

I think 2008 will be a tough year, but I also see it as a great opportunity to seize the day whilst everyone else is whinging and get a front-seat on the inevitable boom that we’ll experience in 2009, 2010 and beyond.

Make sure you make a mental note of everything that is happening now, because it will happen again and again, and if you don’t recognize the symptoms you’ll be suckered into the same negativity, and forget to look for the opportunities.

It’s easy to be negative. Subconsciously, you WANT to be negative! Whenever you open the papers they tell you about the goriest hi-jacking and the most corrupt politicians. Why don’t they dedicate more pages to the fact that Joburg is the world’s biggest man-made forest, or to the corruption-free achievements of the vast majority of public officials? Because bad news sells. Good news is boring.

SA still has the best weather in world! We’re lucky enough to possess a huge chunk of the world’s resources, i.e.: gold, platinum, coal, iron. The growth in India and China will continue to accelerate (India and China sign 10mil new mobile customers every month), and so will their demand for our resources. The government has already embarked on massive infrastructure projects (some of them a tad late, i.e.: electricity), and this will pump money into the economy.

We are all lucky enough to be a part of the birth of a massive and all-encompassing industry. The Internet has and will continue to change the world. The enormity of its impact is up there with the wheel, electricity, TV, telephones, and possibly man’s greatest ever invention, coffee. Not only does it open up an entirely untapped world of commerce, but it is also the ultimate disseminator of information and news. Apartheid would not have lasted 40 years if the Internet had existed! And you’re part of it!

I’m looking forward to another year of ASA complaints, IR issues, Plug & Wireless parties, BTS roll-outs, billing runs, irate customers, happy customers, orange bubbles, faulty elevators, etc, etc. The nice stuff makes me feel good, and the challenges remind me why we can beat the competition. Most importantly I’m looking forward to having fun and making memories.

So ignore the doomsayers, install a timer on your geyser, and buy Ricoffee for a couple of months.

Cheers,
Alan



SA is my home country and dispite the flaws i'm proud to be south african...
if any of you dont like it thats your own thing...
RustPuppet
If this was coming from someone other than the the MD of a crappy, lying service provider it might hold a bit more water tongue.gif

I prefer to be a realist rather than a tree-hugging hippy who expects everything will just get better. While we can easily say that this sort of thing happens every few years and use that as our reason to stay positive, we can also say that similar things happened to other developing countries (e.g. Zim), and look where they are now.

Also, just because bad news sells doesn't mean that it's not actually happening: yes, the story may only involve one or two people out of millions but is there anyone here who doesn't know a victim of crime, or is one themselves?

I find it hard to be positive when I get pulled over several times a month by cops looking for bribes, or when I wake up to no electricity or water (or neither), or when I wonder which friend or relative is going to be the next victim.

The power situation is dire indeed, but i honestly don't feel enough is being done about it for me to just roll and over wait patiently while everything circles the bowl.

Out of interest though: Nitro Guy, do you have a choice to leave SA i.e. could you leave ASAP if you wanted to, or are you stuck here due to financial reasons, work/family commitments, etc.?
Heir_of_Isildur
QUOTE(Nitro Guy @ Feb 1 2008, 08:14 AM) *
SA is my home country and dispite the flaws i'm proud to be south african...
if any of you dont like it thats your own thing...


SA is my home country and dEspite the flaws, I'm proud to be South African...
if any of you LIKE it that's YOUR own thing

dry.gif

We are all entitled to our opinions and just because mine is negative doesn't mean it's wrong.

Yes bad news sells, but have you seen the 'bad' news in 1st world countries?
rurounikenshin
This will make all the rape victims feel so much better about being in South Africa...

So warm and fuzzy...
Nitro Guy
QUOTE
Out of interest though: Nitro Guy, do you have a choice to leave SA i.e. could you leave ASAP if you wanted to, or are you stuck here due to financial reasons, work/family commitments, etc.?
Yip i could leave... i'm unmarried (parents and 65% of family do live here though), i have clsoe family in Ireland, England, Canada, and New Zealand with my current level of qualification i could get a job within a month or two.... but i intend finishing my last two years of training... CA(SA) is second best in the world after CA(Scotland)... not my kinda climate in Scotland though...

QUOTE
If this was coming from someone other than the the MD of a crappy, lying service provider it might hold a bit more water


see the link about the Knott-Craig Family

http://mybroadband.co.za/wiki/index.php/Al...-Craig_(Senior) (MD vodacom - 1993 - director of the Vodacom Group 1996 to current)

QUOTE
Mr Knott-Craig holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering cum laude from the University of Cape Town and a Master of Business Leadership degree from the University of South Africa. He was inducted as one of the eight Gold Members of the GSM Association's 2001 inaugural 'Roll of Honour' for his contribution to bringing mobile telephone to Africa's masses. He serves as a Commissioner on the Presidential National Commission on Information Society and Development for ICTs.
This Oke Does not f#$k spiders Rusty.... IBurst Might lie but then What about Vodacom? you have to admit he must be one fucking good businesman to hold that postion even with his qualifications if he isnt BEE

And dont get me wrong i'm not saying "hey ets just all forget the problems...."

My view is Lets Take the good with the bad SA is not a first world country and comparing it to a first world country is a farce cause its no where near that sort of standard.
Yes its a problem and you feel the same way as most white people in 1994 and i'd like to think we as a country have come a quite a way since then. Was Rome built in one day? No they had to do things trial and error, and learn from their mistakes... So does a third world country advance to a first world country...
I'm not prepared to give up until it like Zim...

QUOTE
We are all entitled to our opinions and just because mine is negative doesn't mean it's wrong


Didn't mean to dis anyone dude apologies all... by the statement you referring to

QUOTE
This will make all the rape victims feel so much better about being in South Africa...

So warm and fuzzy...


Crime is everywhere its not exclusive to SA...
RustPuppet
Lol, I was joking about Mr Knott-Craig biggrin.gif

Although, you have to admit there's a certain amount of bias coming from a rich guy like the CE of Vodacom/MD of iBurst.
hunter
Sorry dude, I used to be the most positive person about SA around. Things change, your eyes are opened to the problems the country faces which like it or not the current government have no intention of sorting out.

I will never bash someone that chooses to stay in SA and "make a go at it", but at the same time I wont be a shoulder to cry on when they complain that close to 50% of their salary is taken from them every month and they get no value for it. Pathetic social services, crumbling infrastructure, rife corruption, incompetent civil servants, racist employment rules... I can go on and on. SA is not a 1st world country you say, so should we just accept sub standard services?

Yes crime is everywhere, the difference is the BRUTALITY of South African crime.

Don't limit yourself to something just because you feel patriotic about the country, go where the best opportunities are for you and your loved ones. Blind loyalty to a country just because you were born there/grew up there is laughable.

Good luck with yr CA.
RustPuppet
Sorry this is turning into another SA-bashing thread, but just an interesting statistic I was recently e-mailed: clicky
hunter
Saddest thing about those stats:

South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people

Weighted average: 0.1 per 1,000 people

russell
For what it's worth, the Alan Knott-Craig of Iburst is the son of the vodacom Alan Knott-Craig. Nitroguy, your link is for the father, not the guy responsible for originating that email.

Anyway, getting back on topic (a first for me), it's easy for him to be positive with the resources he has. The more common man has more issues affecting him, not as easily solvable.
Paul
Hear hear!

There are not many problems that cannot be solved with enough time and enough money.

face it, if you got cash, life in SA is easy.

Not everyone can afford a generator, not everyone can afford ADT, not everyone can afford tracker, extra strength burglar bars, cars that are so expensive, hijackers are not interested in them etc


bottom line : Life is like a shit sandwich, the more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.


I have no other home, SA is the only home I know.
Many people moved out of areas like Berea, Yeoville, Hillbrow because of the escalating crime and people simply did not feel safe in their own homes, so they moved.

I no longer feel safe in my own country, even though its my home, and I was faced with making the biggest decision of my life.

In less than a year, I shall be gone.

Surge
QUOTE
I no longer feel safe in my own country, even though its my home, and I was faced with making the biggest decision of my life.

In less than a year, I shall be gone.

Because your lightie is also moving overseas with his mom?

Damn, yes, I love SA, but shit man, I also want that same kind of mental freedom that people enjoy overseas, i.e. I wanna walk around at night and not worry that some goon is gonna creep up on me out of nowhere, and kill me for the pair of shoes that I have on, or a measly R10.

I wanna have the mental freedom of not having to worry and look around when I stop at a robot at night, that some punk is gonna hijack me, and kill me for my car.

I wanna have that freedom that I can leave my doors and windows open on a hot summer's night until 11pm and beyond, and not have to worry that some shit and his cronies are gonna hold me up in my own home.

Chances are, that I will leave the country. I can't say that it will be soon, but with it looking more likely that we will have Zuma as the next president, what hope is there for this country? When the time comes to leave, it will leave me partly broken, since there really are a lot of great things about this country, but sadly they are overshadowed by too many of the negative bullshit.
Paul
QUOTE(Surge @ Feb 3 2008, 09:06 AM) *
Because your lightie is also moving overseas with his mom?


If they leave they are going to Spain or Oz,
I got a job offer in the UK
Nitro Guy
All your comments are valid and appropriate given the situation. My intention with this thread was at least to give some sorta motivation....

In so many areas SA lacks professional People (Doctors, Nurses, Policemen and so forth) If all of us them leave then what will be left? With shortages, growing shortages rather, as they are and so many, qualified people being the largest chunk of South African Emigrants, No wonder basic infrastructures, etc and are falling apart... Keeping the South African people (The Qualified would be Emigrants) where they belong (in SA) is the integral part of whats needed to turn things around.

I could leave to a another "better" country and so could all of you... Think about this though i dont want my sister/brother/mother/friend/Dog/Cat/horse/Hamster to get robbed, tortured, raped and murdered as much as you guys do.


If i had to leave yes I’d be making the most of opportunities and possibly a better life for myself. (but it would be like creating the scenario in picture)… most of my family and friends in SA probably cant or would take at least 3-5 years to be in the position to pack up and leave (financial, visa related, or other issues). If we all left it’b be like the picture I attached LOL

I’ve heard ppl say its cowardice to leave and I’ve also heard ppl say its stupidity to stay. but I personally don’t think either, I understand the prudence in just packing up and leaving as much as I believe in staying…

rurounikenshin
Why did the qualified professionals leave?

Easy... BEE. (Apart from the horrendous crime and the stupifying incompetances of guvment).

Too pale too male - so they left for countries that hire and pay according to merit and the ability to actually do the job.

What does that mean for SA? We're living it now.

Even my gf is leaving with me. As soon as she's qualified as a VET, ok, she's no human doctor, but she is a qualified professional all the same.

I'll be building hospitals in NZ in the next few years - watch this space.

The reason our infrastructure is falling apart is because the people holding govt positions actually aren't qualified to do the work, let alone understand how everything is supposed to work in the broader scheme of things. Most of them can't see past the tip of their nose.

Look at Manto... a classic example...

But then you get the oppurtunists that turn crime into a way for them to make money - look at Selebi...

Need I go on?
Shi-shi
the only reason why SA is the place to be for me personally is because my family and my bf is here...

Would i leave SA if they weren't a big factor in my life, most likely not... dont think i'm gatvol enough of SA.. at least not yet...

Yes, i've been robbed at gunpoint, almost hijacked and been in some hairy situations if I were to call it that.. but I've been able to handle it all and havent felt the need to run for greener pastures... again I say, yet... for those who leave, they have every right to and no one can and should question another person's need or want to protect themselves or their family. In fact, I respect those who do act in that manner.

And besides, even if I wanted to leave SA.. Where would I go? I'm Muslim, so yeah.. that makes me a hate target especially in Europe and the Americas... I'm coloured.. so I definitely wont fit in in Asia... you dont want to hear or see a coloured trying to do da chinese talk... With Australia, I'll most likely die from annoyance given their accents... And I'm going to qualify as an attorney soon, which makes me a not so liked target across the world! So yeah for now... i guess i'm going to have to stay put...lol smile.gif sad.gif unsure.gif
cyfermaster
and I thought you were still here cause of me. sad.gif
Shi-shi
sad.gif but you are a part of my family... I consider all my best friends (like you) to be part of my greater family...
cyfermaster
oh yay. smile.gif
Surge
QUOTE
I'm coloured.. so I definitely wont fit in in Asia...

Eish... And that leaves a hybrid like me pondering as well... tongue.gif
Paul
nonsense.

in new zealand no one will tell the difference.

a coloured friend of mine moved to new zealand and people there kept asking her why she moved BACK to new zealand.
Shi-shi
nonsense? err... ok... i'm not going to entertain that comment for various reasons...

on the suggestion of new zealand... i'll keep that at the back of my mind should someday I feel the need to leave SA
Paul
the nonsense was aimed at Surge
Surge
Meh.
Fishfly
mwhahahaha FYI Asian's really like the foreigner's....



oh and this is what I got recently...
[attachment=10879:Time_for_the_truth.jpg]
BlackRazor
"Must be a rich whitey. Racist."
-General population.


Fishfly
hahaha welcome back blackrazor! you here to stay?
RustPuppet
Got this via e-mail today. A bit idealistic for my liking but some valid points:

QUOTE
SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO?
By John Demartini

The general feeling among South Africans is doom and gloom based on various facts and perceptions. South Africa is the crime, murder and Aids capital of the world. It used to have the best roads and now they are full of potholes.
There seem to be only fraudsters at the top of the police force. The country's leadership under Mbeki is rudderless. The head of the ruling party is up on corruption charges.
Now a basic infrastructural commodity such as electricity is being rationed. This will directly influence future foreign investment, which in turn will increase unemployment, poverty and crime. Mines are periodically forced to shut down, losing billions, which will adversely affect the economy.
This also brings us to the unthinkable - we could lose the 2010 World Cup. And the even more unthinkable: are we slowly going the same way as Zimbabwe?
A poll taken by Carte Blanche recently confirmed that the majority of affluent South Africans had absolutely no faith in Eskom sorting out the power problems. There seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel... literally. The question on everybody's lips is: Should I stay or should I go?
Human behavioural specialist Dr John Demartini has some thoughts on the subject.
His teachings take him all over the world, enabling him to experience a vast array of living standards. Originally from the US, his work brings him to South Africa for extended periods about four times a year.
The question is not should I stay or should I
go? It is wiser to ask: What awaits me if I leave? Unquestionably there are challenges in South Africa, but you are living in a fantasy if you think there won't be a new set of challenges and drawbacks when you move to another country. People who run away from a challenge get more challenges to face and manage. People who seek ease get continued difficulty. It's the way it is - the integration of complementary opposites.
You have to get into proactive mode

The challenges in this country, like the power shortage, will also birth more opportunities. New enterprises will blossom as a result. Out of crisis always emerge the greatest leaders.
You may not realise it, but your challenges are unifying people in SA and making them think more creatively. SA is a seed of opportunity for entrepreneurs who could contribute to transformation.
Anyway, why run from your heritage? A situation like Eskom is a temporary glitch and it is unwise to let it interfere with your long-term visions and goals.
Remember, the greatest tension in the slingshot shoots the highest rock.
There is never a crisis without a blessing. So let's look at the blessings in the power situation. This may be a lesson to government to think beyond 10 years and accommodate a 50-year vision so subsequent generations benefit from these lessons.
On a day-to-day level, no power to your television is probably making families communicate more. Gold mines might have temporarily shut down, but the gold price shot up.
If you have made up your mind to go, that's fine, but if you are staying, bitching without taking actions towards solutions is not going to help. Don't let naysayers interfere with your dreams and opportunities.
However, staying means you cannot afford the luxury of sitting back. You have to get into proactive mode. Yes, it may seem insurmountable, but if every individual helps at a grass-roots level by figuring out how to empower the people around them, it will make a massive collective difference.
Nelson Mandela is the perfect example of just one person who stood up and changed things. You know the famous words of John F Kennedy: "It's not what your country can do for you - it's what you can do for your country."
Long-term visionaries know to stay the course. They don't focus on how things aren't being done; they always look at what is being done and what can be done on an individual basis. They are always solution-oriented and not problem-focused.
You are not at the mercy of your government; it's the other way round. They are there because the majority of people voted for them. If you don't like their vision, rally around and change it. In the meantime, don't wait on them to sort out the problems, make it a community project.
Contrary to the current thoughts of disillusionment and uncertainty, which are largely driven by emotion, remember foreigners believe in South Africa.
Look at Oprah Winfrey, who has built a school here, and Richard Branson, who has invested every aspect of his brand here, including buying a game reserve. Temporary setbacks won't stop these people.
Look at the history of social dynamics. Nations have risen and fallen for centuries. They have taken one step back and two steps forwards.
South Africa has made massive strides in the past few years. When I first got here South Africa was nothing like I envisioned. I was very impressed. And in the three years I have been regularly coming here, I have seen great progress in the landscaping, buildings and living conditions.
Would I invest in this country? I already have. I have ploughed in copious amounts of time and energy and this is the only place I have established an office outside of the US. My worldwide branding is currently being created here and my working visits are getting more frequent and prolonged.
I am even looking at possibly investing in a lodge in a game reserve. I have also experienced three robberies from my hotel room, but that isn't going to curb my long-term goals in South Africa.
Crime is an issue that needs to be tackled in a much larger forum than this. However, I will go as far as saying that when there is a high polarity between the haves and the have-nots, there will always be tension between the two camps and crime is the byproduct.
Closing the gap is the wisest strategy and this cannot be done through entitlement. Entitled people generally don't feel purposeful and are therefore not creating their own lives.
Education and mentoring, which translates into self-worth and true empowerment, is the only solution. I also believe that newspapers could play a massive role and be the hero in changing perceptions as they reach the masses. Their actions could even transform the government.
If you decide to stay and fight for your birthplace then you need to go from victim to victor mentality. Make the South African mantra: "I will stay and help build a great nation." And remember, if you become grateful for what you have, you will get more to be grateful for.
Surge
QUOTE
And remember, if you become grateful for what you have, you will get more to be grateful for.

True. Pity we tend to focus waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on the negative shit in life.

A good read!
hunter
What are your thoughts on the UK wanting to require visas for SA citizens now?

Yet another way the honest people in SA get f**ked over because of all the corruption. I read somewhere that the US is considering putting SA passport holders on a watch list due to fears that terror suspects are now obtaining fake SA passports

happy days
RustPuppet
*kisses British passport*

Really doesn't surprise me actually. If they can't keep us here with a decent government and quality of life then they might as well shoot us in the foot.
millennia
QUOTE
What are your thoughts on the UK wanting to require visas for SA citizens now?

Yet another way the honest people in SA get f**ked over because of all the corruption. I read somewhere that the US is considering putting SA passport holders on a watch list due to fears that terror suspects are now obtaining fake SA passports

happy days

Good thing in a way, seriously, they have way too many foreigners so why not try manage it?
hunter
Sure, I have no problems with a VISA. My issue is with the reason they want to require one now

Next thing we will be booted out the commonwealth, just you wait and see tongue.gif
RustPuppet
How about we then have a similar policy to get rid of the 6 million odd illegals?
millennia
Cos that would be a human rights violation Rusty dry.gif
RustPuppet
It's a human rights violation to deport people living illegally (and probably tax-free) in our country?
millennia
Yup.

Criminals have more rights remember...
Surge
And expect them to have more rights with a criminal next in line for president!
WhIpLaSh
I've made the decision that by the end of they year I'm out of SA.

Looking at either Scotland or Ireland, depending on work availability.

It makes me sad like you can't believe but I believe SA is too far gone for anyone to save it.
millennia
sad.gif Craig

We'll probably be following soon. We got to make the decision within 2 years cos of the little one and school. Can't see us lasting that long though.
hunter
QUOTE
Look at Oprah Winfrey, who has built a school here


Yeah thats done well, wonder how she feels about the abuse...
rurounikenshin
QUOTE(hunter @ Feb 20 2008, 03:42 PM) *
QUOTE
Look at Oprah Winfrey, who has built a school here


Yeah thats done well, wonder how she feels about the abuse...


Indeed, and what a brilliant message that sent to future American investors.

Thanks mama Jackie!

You're just another brick in the wall that is closing around South Africa.

Thanks for using Oprah's good intentions for this country and using it for personal gain.

Corruption FTL!
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