Do black people in South Africa hide behind their skin colour for everything? Is our government a racist government? Is land reform being handled correctly?

From what I have seen/experienced, some do. That said though it is applicable to all races. All races hide behind their color of skin in certain instances. In South Africa, certain Black people might feel that its now their right to get something because they are black, where white people justify the fact that they cant dance because they are white

All in all, I dont belive that Black people hide behind their skin color any more than White or Asian people do.


No, i personally dont feel like that. Thabo and the boys are, 90% of the time, doing a good job - considering what they have to work with and what they are achieving, I think they are doing very well. As with any government, there are things that each person views as having a lower or higher priority so its 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.


Land reform is never handled correctly. I am completely against the whole idea of land reform on principle. Yes, we need to have some solution to the many many homeless people, but giving someone land because it was owned by their family 134 years ago i feel is unjust to the people that currently reside/bought the land.

Why do you ask these questions if I may ask?

Its an impression I get sometimes and some of it has to do with the whole issue around transformation in sport. My feeling is that every person can share in the responsibilities of transforming their own lives through their own actions (sport or any other area), instead of just sitting back and waiting for opportunities to come to them, which is the way it seems sometimes. It just frustrates me.

Wouldn't be too concerned about it.

In the old SA, certain people became wealthy based on their skin colour. In the new SA, certain people became wealthy based on their skin colour.

In the old SA the masses were poor. In the new SA the masses are poor.

Same system, different colours.

Eat your porridge, pay your taxes, don't ask too many questions

Lol Milano, and with attitudes like that WE CAN MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE!
hahaha

Im with Dr z, thats pretty much how I see things.

It is indeed pretty much the same as in the old days ... just a different colour

And South Africa is not that special ... take a look on a international level

- Europe is having something similar with native Europeans and Muslim population .. The native European people think that the Muslim population can do whatever they want because of their religion - the Muslim population thinks they are being targeted for anything because of their beliefs
- Central Africa : where people are being slaughtered simply because they are hutu or tutsi (something like that)
- America : where (even hundreds of years later) some people in the South still blaim people from the North for everything and vice versa ....
....

I think the explanation for this needs to be searched for in these statements

1) 95% of the global population must start getting along with each another, taking responsibility for their mistakes and stop blaming other people for it. (we have governments for this)
2) Democracy simply does NOT work - this is being proven over and over and over again. This can be confirmed with a simple example : When the head of state is a dictator - you need to think like he thinks, you need to like what he likes, you need to write what he thinks should be written, ... but at least you realize that you are being commanded by a dictator. Democracy, where you still need to do, think, say, write, ... what they tell you to ... they just can make you believe its your opinion (a certain health department comes to mind here)

personally I feel that it's just reverse racism... blacks in power whites become beggers...

and asian's? they still minority and doesn't matter. Or get beaten for their cash in hand.

Democracy works, but when the masses are too ignorant to see that the current goverment is bad for them, THAT is where the problem comes in...

Dictatorships... fuck, the problem is that things like Bob Mugabe will come along and just rule and fuck things up BIG time... At least with democracy there is a possibility that a bad goverment can, eventually, be removed... or at least a bad president.

Talking of reverse racism, did you guys see that article....

i think in south africa, given our recent past of racial discrimination.. i think that every race hides behind their colour and in some racial groups the majority does it subconsciously and others intentionally...

I've met a lot of hard working black people in my lifetime, people who have worked there way up, honestly and with integrity and its something I really admire.. and then we have people who expect things because they black and because they feel that South Africa and South Africans owe them certain things... yes blacks were one of the groups that were terribly mistreated in the past, however, its been over 10 years now and its time to try to move on and create a new present so that in the future, they can look back onto a past where they knew that they worked hard for what they have and didnt merely sit back and wallow in excuses...

Is government racist? No I dont think so. Its now a case of the turned tables... In the past, whites were the voting majority, now in the present, they in the voting minority.

I think too many people in this country complain and bitch and moan, but they not prepared to do anything pro-active about situations or things. I always say, if you dont or cant do anything about it.. shut up and take it. Dont waste your energy on complaining, use that energy to do something positive. Like I said before in a previous thread... if you dont vote, then dont complain. Blacks have the power they have now because they vote, simple as that... you wouldnt believe how they come out in hundreds on voting days.... the lines go on forever! and in mine and other areas... just a few people.. a few people willing to try to make a difference.

Land reform? Like creation said, its never going to be handled properly. There will always be a tension between those who own it now and those who had ownership taken from them centuries ago. Is land reform necessary? Yes I do think so, in certain situations.. however where you have people wanting resource rich land back from a big company.. are we not doing injustice to the rest of South Africa by disallowing that mining or resource extraction from taking place? Giving land to those who are not educated enough to extract those resources and make it work for the economy and for the benefit of all South Africans?

There is a very fine line between respecting individual (individual used here in the sense of a disadvantaged group not a single person) autonomy and considering benefitting society as a whole.. Unfortunately most times when that line is crossed and we move towards individual autonomy... we all end up paying sooner or later.. and yes thats not how a country is meant to be run, its meant to operate in a manner that is beneficial to everyone in some way or another.. the masses, the voting public, they rule.... and in South Africa, blacks are the voting and participating mass, and as we can all see.. they rule...

I voted and I paid my taxes, so already I am doing something that will benefit someone, and I will continue to do so. So you are implying that the black vote is more valuable than the white vote? I also work for a company that strives to create high quality training and education environments for all South Africans and Africans for that matter. It means I do not have to shut up like you said. And the post was not meant as a complaint as can be seen in my second post, its just stating how I feel.

Asking questions does not have to be seen as a complaint. I am accountable for my own actions, same as everyone else should be. If I do not agree with the actions of somebody am I suppose shut up and take it?

I didnt imply anything like that. What I did say was that more blacks vote thats why their leaders are now in government and ruling the country. If you understood the post correctly you would have realised that I said people who dont vote should not complain. If you did vote, like you did, then good for you, at least you did something.

I also did not say that you specifically were complaining, it was a general comment stemming from my discussion based on the feelings I had around the points in the form of questions that you raised. You're taking the hole shut and take it thing very wrongly. I say again, if you not proactive then you shouldnt complain. If you dont agree with someone's actions then no you dont have to shut up and take it, that is not what I said both expressly or impliedly. If you dont agree with government, vote against them and that... is doing something about it and not shutting up and taking it.

They call this a "coup d'etat" and that is bringing us back to square 1

And i fully agree with Shi Shi's statement "it has been 10 years ,,, let's get over it"

What if European people would hold a grudge against Germans ... simply because 50 years ago some power hungry madman did some nasty things ....

You get France.

There are also more of them...

Good point. The brown and yellow South Afircans get stuck squarely in the middle...Maybe it isn't such a bad place for us after all.....