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RustPuppet

Jan 15 2006, 03:17 AM

First, a definition from Urban Dictionary:

QUOTE

musical elitism

A trend in the musical world that has been gaining in both popularity and strength in the past few years. That is not to say that it has not been present in past decades, but with the advent of the Internet and the anonymity it provides, many have come out of the woodwork to voice their opinions.

Musical elitism, simply put, is the valuing of one's own musical tastes as the standard by which all music should be made, or the standard that all others should use to choose what music they listen to. Musical elitists will oftentimes use one of the following words in their tirades against their target band: shitty, sucks, lame, terrible, or any other standard derogatory terms. Musical elitism also comes bundled with musical stereotypes, i.e., all people who listen to Linkin Park are wangsty teens, all people who listen to Evanescence are goths, all people who listen to Avril Lavigne are posers, and so on.

Disliking a band for whatever reason does not automatically make you a musical elitist; the tag comes when one begins to put their standard against others and demand that they give up their "inferior" music for much more "sophisticated" tastes. Everyone is free to enjoy whatever music they like, from Britney Spears to Nirvana to Tool to whatever underground band you may enjoy. People's tastes will differ endlessly and said tastes ought to be respected, whether or not you like the band they enjoy. Everyone is also free to criticize any band they wish, but when one begins to demean people for what they listen to, their integrity suffers, while their standing with other elitists rises.

I'm damn tired of reading posts by musical elitist punks who think they can criticise various bands because they have some sort of superior musical knowledge or experience. What this amounts to IMHO is histrionic posing i.e. these people want to appear cool and act like they have taste so they diss 'inferior' bands and plug whatever bands they think are cool at the time. This has become prominent on music forums where nowadays you can't even have a discussion about a band or article without it being plagued by insults and virtual pissing contests

For example, these are some replies from an article about Fall Out Boy on a guitar website:

QUOTE

User comments:

rockontilludie:
I hate this band with a passion.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 06:59 am / quote |

fv_2000:
Boy Bands Suck
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 07:05 am / quote |

twss:
shit music
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 08:01 am / quote |

loyd:
aahhh.. crap.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 08:33 am / quote |

billiethesquid:
Yay! FALL OUT BOY!! I'm seeing them in Paris as it was the only night on the European tour that hadnt sold out. Flights to Paris and a ticket to the show work out cheaper than just buying a soldout London ticket on eBay!
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 08:59 am / quote |

(jokeman):
sucks
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 09:19 am / quote |

im not mental:
i booed them at warped.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 09:30 am / quote |

lwnovember:
^
ooooo...
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 09:50 am / quote |

Legionairre:
hey they aren't bad, pretty creative group.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 10:04 am / quote |

TheEndOfNothing:
i agree with rockontilyoudie. these clowns are miserable.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 10:04 am / quote |

rockontilludie:
Thank you!, I mean from all this gay Emo/Hardcore shit, Fall Out Boy has to be the worst band of them all, You cant respect a band like this because they really have no talent, all they do is play a few chords, sing about how their girlfriend dumped them and how to dance?, and jump around in girl pants. This shit has to go man, thank god for bands like SOAD, Silvertide, and Shinedown. Hopefully this stupid scene will go away soon.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 10:11 am / quote |

TeenBite:
Meh, they're not overplayed in Britain, and I think most of you hate them for the hell of it. I quite like them, and no I don't enjoy Green Day and all that shit: the last album I bought was Annihilation of the Wicked.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 10:14 am / quote |

team_seagull:
What a surprise. An article about fall out boy and all the cretins crawl from under their piss-drenched stones to contribute as insightful remarks as ever. Well done.
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 10:30 am / quote |

q12we34r:
Fucking suck
POSTED: 01/12/2006 - 10:49 am / quote |

One point that I must mention though is that I think there is a definite difference between bands that actually have talent and those that don't e.g. you can't compare Britney Spears to Whitney Houston. I know I have bitched a lot about Blink 182 before, not because I don't like their music but because I honestly believe they are severely lacking in talent; this was until I saw Tom DeLonge shredding (damn well) at some guitar show which made it even worse since it's obvious he purposely dumbed down his playing in Blink 182 because that's the market they're aiming for.

The same goes for Metallica: they also removed any evidence that they had any talent with their last album because a nu-metal sound would sell more records (haha, look how that turned out).

So what do you guys think? Opinions? Flames?

DoomAng3l

Jan 15 2006, 06:02 AM

Rust,

This happens to everyone, no matter which side of the fence you sit on. This also pertains to everything from religion to your choice in food.

Go looking for an opinion and you will always find an asshole.... and sometimes that asshole is yourself.

Later.

Gitano

Jan 15 2006, 06:49 AM

The sad thing about this world, is that money drives all.

I agree about elitists though, they should all just stfu for a change.

Carrots

Jan 16 2006, 01:35 AM

There are various talents. One could consider making crap music that appeals to the masses a talent as well...

Heir_of_Isildur

Jan 16 2006, 02:13 AM

Yeah, unfortunately we miss out on a lot of talent because they decide to go main-stream. Who wouldn't though?

If I made chairs... and I made the best dam chair ever, selling it for R150, but only sold 1 a month... I'd rather build chairs like my opposition whose selling 2000 a month for R150 also! It's an easy choice to make

RustPuppet

Jan 16 2006, 03:02 AM

QUOTE

This happens to everyone, no matter which side of the fence you sit on. This also pertains to everything from religion to your choice in food.

I know it pertains to almost everything, but the topic I want to address is in regards to music.

QUOTE

Go looking for an opinion and you will always find an asshole.... and sometimes that asshole is yourself.

That's the point of this discussion, I want to hear opinions on it. I hope you're not calling me an asshole

DoomAng3l

Jan 16 2006, 06:34 AM

Nope, not calling you an asshole and your point is valid.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are up their own asses when it comes to music.....

My opinion :

I don't care... listen to whatever makes you happy .... but shut your gob if you don't like it ... no one is forcing you.

Carrots

Jan 16 2006, 07:07 AM

If you dont like the music I do, you are an A-hole. Why? because my taste in music is good, and thus yours suck. Get a life, get some good music, 1053r!

DoomAng3l

Jan 16 2006, 08:09 AM

RustPuppet

Jan 16 2006, 10:25 AM

Haha, nice try Carrots

So what do you listen to that we must all believe is good?

DoomAng3l

Jan 16 2006, 10:48 AM

Uh Oh,

I feel a "METALLICA RULEZ!" moment coming....

JuCa

Jan 16 2006, 01:53 PM

If you are feeling strongly about music and the reasons why it is good you should be able to back it up with a reason (or multiple even).
I can generally swallow most music but that doesn't mean I like all of it and I believe some music is crap (while others might find it to be the best). It all depends what kind of appreciation you are giving to it, some like it empty, some like it deep, etc.

Two bands that do not deserve to be mentioned in a serious music taste conversations are Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit (although they had a few good songs)!

*Edit* : I also think that you shouldn't feel ashamed or whatever if you dislike music just for the reason of not liking it. Everyone has their right to talk shit about others (welcome in the world kids). The thing that I am starting to hate is that everything has to be PC or according to some values/standards. I do not know if you guys / girls are understanding what I mean with this but it seems like people are sometimes scared to give an opinion cos God forbid, someone might be offended!

Carrots

Jan 17 2006, 12:38 AM

Juca, you like Tool and APC, dont you?

Yes, that above post was a joke, but seriously, people that liked that rap/crap song that Zuraida played around 9:00 this morning.... You suck, you are not worthy of licking up my shed pubic hairs from the toilet seat, and I will never be your friend!!! (Except if you have a hot sister who does not like that song.....

)

I dont mind rap, Eminem is quite funny. I wont download an mp3 of him, but can tolerate it. But the song Zuraida played makes me want to vomit!

Rust: I currently listen to the new Alanis, Shinedown, SOAD (hypnotize - best album yet, although I never listend to mesmerize), bush, and Foo fighters, Katie Melua.

I liked metallica, although st anger was not as good. S&M is best imo. I know lots of ppl differ in opinion on S&M.
I listen to Tool and aPerferc Circle. The Narrow, The killers, Fokofpolisiekar.

I am not a fanatical music listener though.

Gitano

Jan 17 2006, 01:23 AM

Any idea what the song was called Carrot? Im presuming that it was Eminem?
If it is his latest release, all about Hayley, then I like it.

I also like Metallica (not st. Anger), SOAD, Bush, Incubus, Foo Fighters and a whole lot more. I listen to music all day everyday, so saying that a song makes me want to vomit would be extremely strong in my experience, even if that song happens to be black eyed peas - my humps, which I will only listen too if the video is playing, so I can ogle Ferdie

RustPuppet

Jan 17 2006, 01:44 AM

I hope Eminem dies a horrible professional death like Vanilla Ice

Seriously, people call that talent? Trite, self-indulgent rubbish is what I call it. I mean the only person who really gives a damn about all of Eminem's personal baggage is him, why the hell should the rest of the world have to listen to it; we have our own problems.

Besides, it's tacky to air your dirty laundry in public

/rant

QUOTE

even if that song happens to be black eyed peas - my humps

I can't believe MTv have stooped so low that they're playing videos like this. Those guys are another lot who clearly have no talent or songwriting ability. Sigh

Carrots

Jan 17 2006, 01:50 AM

No, it wasnt Eminem. It was the usualt "i am girl, i see man dance so cool makes me want to have sex with him"
"i am man, girl look so fiiiine, makes me want to dance" type rap crap.

I didnt finish listening to it.

Eminem is a lot better!!

What I respect about Eminem, is that he makes a mockery of his fans right now by "singing" about every kind of crap imaginable!

Song I heard this morning (before I switched to the other crappy one for a while):

He sings about how you can touch your toes on the dancefloor and let one rip, because no-one will hear. Then the CD skips, and you hear it...
Its crap, I know, but who else will be able to sing about such utter crap, and still be able to sell it?

The same with the song about his pee-pee going boing, and if radio stations would play it.

I dont listen to his music, but I still find it entertaining if I stumble upon it.

Heir_of_Isildur

Jan 17 2006, 02:28 AM

QUOTE(Carrots @ Jan 17 2006, 08:38 AM)

Rust: I currently listen to the new Alanis, Shinedown, SOAD (hypnotize - best album yet, although I never listend to mesmerize), bush, and Foo fighters, Katie Melua.

Hey!!! I'm going to see the Foo Fighters next weekend

and Katie Melua will be here in March I think... but I probably won'te be seeing her...

JuCa

Jan 17 2006, 02:35 AM

I like Tool and APC indeed! I can still some respect up for bands like Black Eyed Peas and even Eminem (cos he knows how to sell himself!). That doesn't mean I like their music though...

QUOTE

I can't believe MTv have stooped so low that they're playing videos like this. Those guys are another lot who clearly have no talent or songwriting ability. Sigh

Is this the first song you think that off? Mtv hasn't been playing anything decent in quite a while now...At least Alternation and Superrock manage to get a bit away from the overplayed crap! Lets not even get started on rap and r&b, I hate it so much and I wish people could just forget about it (who wants to listen anyway to some fucked up rapper talking about ho's?), the only rapper I actually enjoy these days is Kayne West (and he is a fucking nut outside his music), even Kayne West is just getting through!

Look at Madonna, wtf is up with that? She is 47, looks like shit (admitting though that she looks great for her age) and makes a lame ass dance-song with an Abba sample in it...Did you even listen to the lyrics? Ring ring goes the telephone...This record was supposedly made for her generation, does this mean they are getting senile?

Amazingly enough no one has commented on Linkin Park yet...

Carrots

Jan 17 2006, 02:48 AM

A music festival showcasing the best in both international and local talent. Featuring Metallica, Collective Soul (USA), The Rasmus (Finland), Simple Plan (Canada) and Fatboy Slim (UK), plus local artists; Finkelsteins, Parlotones, Prime Circle, Seether, Flat Stanley, State Far Better, and Spoonfeedas. Each artist will perform for between 45 and 60 minutes, with two side-by-side stages ensuring unbroken entertainment.

18 March, for from 12 to 12

Still thinking about it. Tickets are R400....

Linkin Park. I like to listen to their music as well. Havent in a long time though. I agree they are very shallow compared to other greater artists. Their music wont last as long as some of the metallica classics, or Nirvana.

And MTV, VH1, 5FM, and almost all radio in general I avoid. They play music for the masses, and the masses, dear sir, are idiots!

I only listen to TUKS FM (have reception 75% of my way to work), and my CD's / MP3's

Heir_of_Isildur

Jan 17 2006, 03:07 AM

QUOTE(Carrots @ Jan 17 2006, 10:48 AM)

I only listen to TUKS FM (have reception 75% of my way to work), and my CD's / MP3's

Even the students at Tuks are boycotting Tuks ATM... they're moving to a lot of R&B/Rap, and people aren't diggin it! But they're still the best station... but I cannot stream it here (probably doing something wrong).

About that concert... tickets are nearly finished Carrots... make up your mind!

Carrots

Jan 17 2006, 03:19 AM

I only listen to it (TUKS FM) on my way to and from work. Its pretty good during those times. Especially in the mornings.

Oh, and DoomAng3l, you wont get a "METALLICA RULEZ!!" from me

I dont have a super favorite band! Although Nightwish was/is the band I listened the most to.

Heir_of_Isildur

Jan 17 2006, 03:43 AM

QUOTE(Carrots @ Jan 17 2006, 11:19 AM)

I only listen to it (TUKS FM) on my way to and from work. Its pretty good during those times. Especially in the mornings.

Yeah Tuks gets horrid in the afternoon

It's really been a problem since Riaan (the station manager) got in trouble and left. He was very contraversial

Simon

Jan 17 2006, 11:14 AM

QUOTE

And MTV, VH1, 5FM, and almost all radio in general I avoid. They play music for the masses, and the masses, dear sir, are idiots!

Fuck you.

HowlinMadMurdoc

Jan 17 2006, 03:58 PM

QUOTE(Carrots @ Jan 17 2006, 09:48 AM)

And MTV, VH1, 5FM, and almost all radio in general I avoid. They play music for the masses, and the masses, dear sir, are idiots!

if you think those are bad you should listen to UK radio, terrible stuff, gives me nightmares

Carrots

Jan 18 2006, 12:25 AM

QUOTE(Simon)

QUOTE

And MTV, VH1, 5FM, and almost all radio in general I avoid. They play music for the masses, and the masses, dear sir, are idiots!

Fuck you.

Aah, the fightclub we've all come to know and love

My quote is broken, but I dont care....
(your quote is fixed...)
it is indeed. Thanks, now I look like less of a n00b

JuCa

Jan 18 2006, 01:29 AM

I actually enjoy VH1 cos they play alot of old stuff...

Carrots

Jan 18 2006, 02:17 AM

I wouldnt realy know, as I rarely watch it. (I dont even have TV, much less DSTV)
The times I have watched it, the music wasnt as bad as what was playing on MTV at the same time (aha >> usher), but not realy what I would listen to if I had the choice.

I wish we had MTV2 here

Carrots

Jan 18 2006, 02:32 AM

But to bring this thread back on topic, it would seem that I am one of the assholes Rust referred to the the opening post....
And most of the ppl here have a little of that asshole in them... (now I'm glad I used the term "asshole" and not "dick")

I think its only natural to be a bit of an asshole when it comes to things like this. It pisses me off when there are so few music channels/stations that play the kind of music I like, and so many that play the music that irritates me. I then express my anger in my opinion.

I like about 15% of music, 70% of the music I dont realy like, but can listen to it, and the bottom 15% irritatest the crap out of me! If you listen to the bottom 15%, you will find me to be an asshole.

Heir_of_Isildur

Jan 18 2006, 03:29 AM

MTV2 Rawks... we need it in SA big-time!

yeah Carrots you asshole

... I think I also can be a bit of a prick when other people are listening to Emo-rock or Rap

JuCa

Jan 18 2006, 03:59 AM

For me it really depends on who I am argueing with. People who have no impact in my life I will be dickish with about music. People who I actually know I will be more tolerable with. Such is life, you can't please everybody and it is always fun to see these people who think that Britney Spears is the shit and will keep on defending her talents till their heads explode...

Seriously, who gives a fuck about what other people feel like (especially those you do not know). As long as you are happy with your choices.

Heir_of_Isildur

Jan 18 2006, 04:55 AM

Yip. That's what it comes down to - being happy with what you listen to.

I try not to dis' people's music, but if they start, I will not hesitate to tell them my opinion! Everybody has the right to like whatever they want... just don't try telling me about it.

Carrots

Jan 18 2006, 06:39 AM

And what if other ppls taste in music affects your quality of life adversely?

Why do you think most radio stations play this rap/hiphop/rave/ghei crap?
Because it sells! Why does it sell? Because some ppl like it! Ok, most ppl like it...

And I will be an asshole to everyone who'se actions affect my quality of life adversely!

AAAhhh! Thats enough irrational ranting for today. I think from now on I will think before I type... at least for the rest of the day

Gitano

Jan 18 2006, 01:28 PM

My girlfriend like Briteny Spears :'(

Luckily she also likes real music, but Im afraid Im finding it hard to let britney go.... its just... intolerable. Only time I can stand britney, is a photo of her naked, before she got ugly. No sound involved.

Paysage d’hiver

Apr 9 2006, 08:15 PM

Rust, I don’t entirely agree with that definition of a ‘musical elitist’. Everybody imposes their opinion on somebody else at some point or another, how intelligent and crass they are about it is defined by personality and/or mental traits, and at the age of 16, neither of these traits are exactly well defined. The word you are looking for is ‘adolescent’, not ‘musical adolescent’, just ‘adolescent’.
A ‘musical elitist’ is a different monster entirely.

QUOTE

‘And MTV, VH1, 5FM, and almost all radio in general I avoid. They play music for the masses, and the masses, dear sir, are idiots!’

Hmm, that was an interesting comment. I recall this one day in school, our teacher had pleaded with our class, begging the stupid people not to breed.
I remember thinking then that every single person in class was probably thinking that she was referring to the other people in the class.

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