This is a two fold post, aimed at both the admins and the members.

As the topic says, Who's Bright Idea was all of this?

Do you realise how many members you are going to loose through all of this?

Was any testing actually put into this whole "migration"

There are so many fuckups that it leads one to believe that this wasn't properly tested.

I've picked up a vibe of unhappiness from a lot of the members of the board and a lot of the previous staff who I don't think understood what was going to happen properly because from what I heard they were all for it and now they're bitching about it.

Just a couple of stuff ups I've picked up on....

• Main vault9 site's menu goes straight through the top banner
• A lot of the sites are missing team banners
• You now have a complety independant post count on every single site which is a false indication completly.
• Each site has a HUGELY inflated post count which is nowhere near accurate.
• If you make any changes to your signature you need to make those changes across all 9 sites.
• Cross site loging in is not working.

Am I the only person who is totally baffled by this "new" site?

Are the rest of you happy with the new site?

Well I just came back from Cape Town and I'm pretty pissed off about this myself. Why did you guys split the forum up? Its probably one of the worst things you can do to such a successfull forum.

I`m not one of the biggest contributors to the forum or now forums, but I visit here evereday.

I liked the old forum much better.

The new site(s) are way to confusing and difficult to switch between them all, but most probably the decision was made and like the previos name chance if you dont like it leave.

I concur, in its present incarnation, the site is terrible. What the hell ever happened to "... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.."?

Whose ever idea this was, was clearly in a different state of mind to the rest of us, and perhaps it is time for him/her to get his/her prescribed medication back.

In summary, if I haven't made it clear enough already, the new setup is a load of toss and should have been scrapped at the initial "hey i have a bright idea, why don't we....".



A frustrated PM user.

-*AssAssIN*- : it was broken, so the admins fixed it. Everyone bitched about the name.

This is a new lease on life for the forums. I do understand that a lot of things arent working, but as it says in I dont know how many places, the site is in BETA. Things are going to go wrong in moves this big.

I agree about the post count totals, signatures and team banners aCe. I do disagree about cross site loggin, the sites were seperated for a reason. When you sign up now, you sign up to one site, eg : chill or tech, you dont get an account on all of the sites, you have to create an account on each one.

Overall I like whats going on. The forums have a completely new feel. The people who want to be here will stay, thats what counts, we could do without a few people who dont seem to want to be here and just moan all the time.

Of course there are going to be problems, splitting up a board like this is going to cause hassles. While I'm still not completely comfortable with the new look (especially the orange Tech board ), I do think it's a step in the right direction.


Maybe you're missing the point of all of this? People come to this forum for different reasons, whether it's to talk hardware, software, games, or just plain crap. By splitting them up we are focusing on specialised areas, so, for example, the guys who wanna just talk hardware can do so without the interference of other discussions. AFAIK the aim is to have several specialised forums instead of one very broad one.


You are not your post count.

There is a very huge difference between a name change and a complete different way of displaying forums. The name was broken not the formula.



Beta is called Beta for a reason. It's supposed to be a testing phase, not something you just go ahead and do without solid testing and user concensus.



You and not many others I'm afraid. It's accepted that a member of "staff" doesn't voice their true feelings in fear of pissing off "the big wigs". It's nothing personal, it's just the way it's always been.



Sigh... that's not my point at all. If you're going to split the DB's then split it properly. Don't take people's post counts across every single site because it's not a true reflection on the site.

.............

Let me set something straight. I was offered the position of Editor on net.vault9.net which I hesitantly accepted. I am willing to do my bit for the site as I have done in the past but I am not happy with the way things have been done. This whole move might have been bold but I feel it is having an adverse effect on the members than what was anticipated.

We liked NF just fine. We split it to try and make members who were griping in the forums more happy. This is exactly what was asked for.

As I detailed in the letter we tried to take everyones opinions into account and spit out a new site that was what everyone wanted...

People said there was no focus - we split it into focussed sites
No one liked the name - we changed it to something unique
People wanted certain mods - we added them all

I, and badc0de, understand that its not perfect for existing members - but we did our best

For startets cruising the different forums is a bitch to be honest,even though most users would prefer a certain Tech/Mod/Chill or whatever else forum I think a large percentage would hop around from topic to topic be it Bitch&Moan to a review from Solo and pass the time, and have some fun on not just 1 specialised area.

Now what took 2 steps has turned into 4,6 pages open with different forums.......

One other thing,I try to create a new topic in here and even though i'm logged in I get: "Sorry, you do not have permission to start a topic in this forum"

Eh ?

Just to add,was there a poll for all this on the old forums ?

Dude edit your posts but yeah... I don't recall people saying the site had no focus?

Well I was all for the new setup ... but now it does not feel like home again YET.

My 2 cents are as follows:

The Main Vault9 page needs to have links to the various sections. NOT like it is now but how about a more prominent list of main sections maybe even in their different colors (even the various logo's) to get people used to the subsections.

Then next to each section the option of going to its Main Page or Forum direct.

Also the Todays Active Topics / New Posts search needs to include ALL the sections in the results.

Otherwise people are going to feel as though they are each living in their own little box with department A not knowing whats happening in department B.

As it is I havent bothered going to three of the sections yet as it's just to much effort and as a result Im sure I am going to miss out on a great bit of info here and there along the way.

I don't even know what to set my homepage to yet.

Most of the topics in the Tech Section should be in the Modding Section and my reviews which were attrating a lot of hits are now getting virtually zero as the Google searches go to www.vault9.net so most people are not going to bother looking further to find them.

I hope all of this can all be fixed in time

Well, initial response is: BOO!

I've resorted to adding each of the 8 vaults into a bookmark folder in FF, and a single middle-click opens up 8 windows to get access to the 8 forums, and then having to log in into all 8 (not a problem here, but will be when not on home box)... Making the most basic task of the forum (reading the forum) more difficult!

New Posts
Perhaps don't modify 'new posts' like that solo, perhaps add a new button:
- New posts in this vault - New posts in all vaults.
(or some more focussed name)

But even this could've been implemented and beta'd by modifying the forum a bit, instead of redoing the whole site...

Post Count
The age old forum dick-size
Maybe also integrate the multiple forums. Then give a post count something like 534(70) - 534 posts across all vaults, 70 posts in this vault.

BOOM!

"Hate It Or Love It!"

I dont really care, i browse now and again any way.

Looks like there is light at the end of the tunnel -> http://chill.vault9.net/forums/The_new_Vau...up-t22445.html#

There will be people who hate it and people who love it. Maybe if we all stop bitching (no this isnt directed at anyone) and sit down and try to work together and make vault9 the best or "Quam Optime" which is latin for better than the best!

The admins never made PlanetMars the successes it was (they contributed no doubt) the USERS did.
When net-forums was started the USERS again where the driving force of the site now lets try do the same with vault9.

Im also one who isnt a fan of the new site, but then again i never liked net-forums but i adapted. i will try to do so with vault9 and if i know i can make a difference i will do so, but til then im just mr. browse forum.

The admins are not here to SAY NO! if you have problems / issues or ideas present them, but do so in a positive manner.

ok i dont really check my spelling and grammar so deal with it.
kthnx have a day nice all.

P.S. this was in general not directed at anyone!

I think some of the ideas here are good ones, specifically a link to view all new posts in all vaults in a single list, similar to clicking the View New Posts link in the forum before it split up. Also, the vault specific post count would be nice. At the moment the sites feel a little too separated, but some changes like that could quickly bring it back together a bit. Someone remarked on IRC that at the moment all this change has done is segregate the relatively small number of regularly active users into even smaller groups, which makes the vaults seem like very lonely and unsuccesful forums.

I like the idea of splitting the forum into vaults, but I think its important to have the facilities available for users to browse all the vaults as if they were a single forum, just like users can browse the vaults like individual forums. I know the main reason I was so active on Planetmars / Net-Forums was because with one click I oculd keep up to date on tech news and the local modding scene, the latest games and movies, current affairs both local and international, interesting and passionate debates about discursive issues, as well as the occasional joke thread or whatever. I just feel that without the facility to browse the entire site like one giant forum I am going to miss out on posts made in vaults which I might not visit every day.

Well you see that defeats the whole purpose of breaking up the forums into the seperate sites. The point was to split the sites and not have one site to browse all anymore. I dunno hey, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I agree that NF was a pretty small community of active/regular posters. Now with the forums being split, the community seems even smaller and it seems pretty quiet around here (hey - was that an echo? )

I also enjoyed catching up on ALL the new posts with one click and I seriously doubt I would ever login-in to all the vaults daily now.

I can understand splitting the sub forums up into seperate sites, but I want some sort of umbrella site where I can continute to browse the froum in the same way that I always have. If a facility like that is not implemented I know I will end up using this site less, which is a pity because since I first registered here almost 3 years ago, it has become a part of my daily internet routine to check on the new posts at this forum. In my opinion these little subsites don't have enough users to sustain them individually and they are going to die. The vaults need to work symbiotically and have a combined user group where people can easily make posts in any vault without having to login to each vault seperately or register seperate accounts in each vault, and where new topics from all vaults are displayed in one place.

I think what I resent most about this change is that we (the regular users on the old forum) were not consulted. Was a referendum of the regular users of Net-Forums conducted before this change was made? Imo it's no good having new flashy sites with new code and lots of new mods if you piss off all the regular users and no one posts.

Don't misinterpret me, I am thankful every day for the guys who run this site, I just think with regards to this new change, users should have the option of whether to browse each vault as a seperate site or all the vaults as one big site like before.

Another alternative is to return the forum to its old format. I know that would undo a lot of hard work done by the coding team, but perhaps you should make sure people actually want the changes you are making before you put in a whole day of coding?

Well, if there is one thing i can say about all this its kudo's to the Admin's for knowing how to spring a surprise

All in all I think the split was a great idea - and the new name is absolutely fabulous. The split was needed because I noticed over the last couple of months that there seems to be only activity in certain sections of the board - these being Modding, Tech, Chill. The modding and tech (like Solo's magical reviews) sections are highly specialised and people who stumble across them by whatever means will most probably not care about all the other stuff going on. This is why i think its a good idea to split them off and specialise them. Like fx's letter said - this gives each community the oppurtunity to grow their respective sites. I know i myself was guilty in the past (as mod for the previous networks section) of not giving enough attention to the site and trying to grow it. Right now, i almost feel ashamed of that, and jealous of the popularity of the other sections (for whatever reason) - and now i feel resolved (if I am granted the oppurtunity) to try whatever possible to ensure that net.vault9.net grows spectacularly.

You see (and if i am grossly wrong here, please excuse me) i think that this place has been going through a bit of a identity crisis. The old PM used to be a local (south african focused) site and that's how the members got too know it. The problem is that (as we all know) the internet community in South Africa can most probably not sustain a venture like this due to the sheer lack of users. If the site was to grow it had to become more international focused. I think this was (part) the reason for the name change from PM to the (ghay - sorry but i really hated it) Net-Forums. The problem was that it was just a name change - in all other aspects it was still pretty much local focused. What was needed was a complete, massive, huge overhaul - and this is what has happened with the change to vault9. And i dare say that for a lot of people this is the main issue - the change of focus from local to international - and again i might be seriously off here.

Seriously though, I have to say I understand the points that most of the people here have raised. The one main thing seems to be the extent of the split. Some kind of integration still needs to exist between the different sites. I dare say that i even think that only one account should be used for all the sites. This still gives the feeling of seperation - but doesn't completely stifle a feeling of ONE network. A central searching facility (if only on the landing page) that searches across all the sites for new topics is an absolute must imho. Sure, when you are on mod or whatever your searches can be only for that - but i know that for myself (and for most other people around here) its crucial to be able to see the new topics across all sites.

Oh yeah, and the colour scheme (especially for net.vault9.net )nees a bit of rethinking...

All in all i say great work - like i said i love the name, and the new look and feel is also very nice.

demon has basically summed up what most of NF was saying to us. I assure you every change we've made has been suggested to us, ESPECIALLY splitting it up. No one one said "split them up" but day by day we lost users to "more focussed forums". Now we are focussed.

My feeling is the the old NF was still the best, also because I could read every topic from current affairs to peoples personal affairs to modding, upgrading, selling and so on, but now I am limited to certain sections, why? because now I have to refresh 8 page's instead of one main index. which in turn uses more bandwidth, so now when I'm at work(Internet bandwidth monitored) I get nailed for using a whole lot more, without getting any more
As for good things with Vault9, well I'm not cared about focus, or focusing on one section, because when i first started using PM and then NF(which very fast became my home page, and MUST VISIT DAILY site),before I was only interested in mobo's, then started reading interesting writing's/topic's from people like catherine, moding from MrBean, and extremes from jasonhk and neosteve, car stuff from people like blackrazor, driver, and silver. now it just SUX BIGTIME it feels as if Vault9 is no longer home, when you guys changed over to NF it just looked like a better PM but not this time. So now everyone is now split into there own little section, and if by mistake you post something it the wrong section, SO HELP YOU THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU TRY POST IN THE CORRECT SECTION!!!!!!!!, where as before it could just be moved, oh so easily. If I'm Bitching to much it's just how I feel, it's like when someone takes a turd in your living room. It just stinks. Maybe i should move over to the other local OC fourm.
My 1c any way if you don't like my post feel free to delete it, as I'll most likely won't be here.

IT'S JUST NOT HOME ANY MORE.


well here goes another one

EXCELLENT point! I didn't even think of that one.

hmm.... I see a lot of people not even willing to give this new forum/s a shot. why? We can all test it and make it better by adding our oppinions in a decent manner. At least that is how I feel. Things people have requested have been done... I am just confused how so many people are not willing to give this a chance. I for one will not be leaving just like that.

Ok I have been visiting nf for the last 2 years on a regular daily bases, I have come to love the site, and I have learned a lot from it. I really enjoyed it cos its local and it was all under one roof, I didn’t have to visit 10 sites each day to get my daily tech/movie/mod/ ect news anymore, I could just check the news page. I could take in a lot of information simply because it was all accessible with one click. Now to the present.

I think the question is, who made net-forums as big as it was and wtf is a couple of ppl deciding the fate of an entire community? Sounds like the Zimbabwe approach to me.

I agree with tech Phil, why was there no poll? There’s ppl like solo who made nf “famous” now all the hard work he put into those reviews is just part of the ghost town vault 9 have become.

The story bout losing users to focussed forums? Erm, I don't buy it. Couple of weeks back there was a post that net-forums is ranked extremely high in the worlds most visited sites list? I think you’re losing a lot more valuable users to the focussed flawed beta you’re forcing down our throats.

I know you guys have put in a lot of hard work, and you want to see the site grow, but in this case it was a selfish act – too much ambition and too little consideration for the ppl the made this site a success. Id like to know in the last week, how has the hit counter been running? I don't see a lot of new posts, like some one else said this place is a tomb,its a fallout vault. Your hoping the ppl will come flocking back when the site is out of beta? Should we all stay away till then? Till next time when someone is feeling ambitious again?

I suppose my dick size (post count) is too low to really have a say in this matter, but it’s a bitch having no place to call homepage anymore, seeing something that was part of my daily life disintegrate. If you were asking a monthly subscription so that we could have the old nf back, id be the first one to sign up.

lets see if i can put it this way, would you rather be driving a M3(which you new how to drive) to work? or fly a Airbus 30000XXX yourself (with Oh say about a million buttons on the consoal) just to get to work?????

Have you people seen the Active Topics Link? I mean go to that Link and you can find all the recent posts on all Topics...



How about hanging around and helping make it a bigger better community. If NF was so much to you, then how come it is so hard to give this a chance????? I know I can be lazy, but people complaining about having another window open... that just takes the cake...

Use 2 cars at least for your comparison...

I just think that if the people that are complaining about the site would just give it a chance, they would realise that it isn't as "terrible" as they think it is. Maybe I am just too much of an optimist...

Cyfermaster its not as simple as that,its not about having 2 windows open. nor is that the only reason we are complaining.



A lot of us are bandwidth monitored, and a lot of content is relevant in more than one of the new forums, should you double or triple post everytime something is relevant in another place? ect ect.

Yes in a perfect world maybe we should all just adapt the wait and see way of things, but ppl are impatient, and they wont wait, cos there is prob a 1000 other forums just a click away. Thats the reason I think ace started this topic, we need to keep this together and as soon as possible find solutions and answers to the problems experienced. Finding some kind of midway.

/me does the FOWARD SLASH CARE dance.

jeez, only 3days old and no one wants to try and let things develope.

*sigh*

Yeah I agree. So people should "complain" constructively. Not just say I don't like it I am leaving and not coming back...

well what car is just as complex as an Airbus, if I new one I would have used it.

Nonsense, your opinion counts as much as anyone else's. That is part of the issue here, I don't believe most users wanted this new vault system to be implemented but no one thought of asking us.

The least they could have done was have a poll.


I'm not leaving yet, but its getting very close, but if it stay's like this, I may as well join some or other forum that has a ALL IN ONE type format, and not 6,7,8,9 or how ever many sections. It's just realy dificult to keep in contact with the people you are use to seeing around with all the diferent sections, and besides that what happens when someone PM's you in a fourm that you don't frequentley use?????
and I still have to clear out my now 7 other mail boxes in the other Vaults, 4 pages each.

They want things handed to them on a plate. Everything must come free or its not worth having.



Bad choice of comparison man.
The Airbus has the potential to go a lot FURTHER, carrying a lot MORE people. It is also a lot HIGHER. See?
If people here actually tried to give a damn, they would try it out, suggest solutions (which a few dediacted members already have) Then Vault9 can go as far as we want it to go.
Pointless bitching.. *sigh*

ro0t : :woot:

my point is we need some thing simple that works, not 20 million pages open just to get a few simple answers. and like i posted earlier, post in the wrong section by mistake and you get nailed, why because ITS IN THE WRONG VAULT!!!!!

So if I say wanted buy a GFX card and find out a few things , like volt mod my GFX card, get recomendations on the best GFX card, then which Vault do I post under MOD Vault, but its a GFX card, ok GFX Vault, but you need technical specifications on it, ok TECH Vault, aaah yes but you also want to MOD it!!!!!! maybe just put it in the CHILL Vault and chat about which Vault to put it into!!!!

Its not hard to kindly notify an editor/admin whatever to delete it, and just go re-post it in the correct vault. Not exactly difficult.

Gitano/w2dmb/Devon: You need some of this.

Pissed off?

hmmmm....

I am actually disgusted in the members of these forums.

a month of planning went into the change, many hours of work and a 24 hour marathon and what do Ian and Dave get for their hardwork? people that are pissed off?

Sorry but that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth

I personally like this.

the font page has the latest posts, I managed my bookmarks in firefox into a folder which allows you to open all 9 sites with 1 mouse click ( yes just 1 mouse click see my screen shot )

regardless we have people saying that they are pissed off, pissed off??

all I can say is thanks to both Ian and Dave for their massive effort.

For a while now people have moaned about the name and about other issues and now we make some changes and people still moan well guess what ? I have learnt over the last 4 years that making South Africans happy is impossible.

3 cheers to Ian and Dave.

I have one complaint, I understand that the new format has been focused to try and keep some users who were leaving but I have been here for quite a while and I have not seen any of the regulars leave. What about all of the regulars who came here BECAUSE it was one big diverse community all in one place. Quite frankly my workload does not allow me the time to browse 9 different forums to find what I want and not having it in one place will seriously limit the time I spend here.

If there was some way to view new posts from all forums and not have to login seperately to each this might help but I know it is probably asking alot.

Edit: Just before Rush goes off again .. ... Ian and Dave, I am sure everyone here appreciates the work, I have clients who pay me to put up with less shit than you guys get so, again, it is appreciated.

Sorry Rush for not appreciating your guys hard work, and I understand how you guy's must be feeling with all the negative comments, but I suppose the change was a little to much all to fast.

I would just like to know if you could make the Global View, more similar to the old NF index view, with dates, and number of replies, it would be a great help to may of us that are bandwidth limited at work, as I just opened 4 topic's that I had read 2 days ago with no new info in them. Also the Global View does not correspond to any of the indexes in the vaults, eg the latest Mod index does not correspond to the Global view index.

I think the reason people were also bitching so much is that because the front page was down for so long, most members were in too much of a hurry to see what the New Vault looked liked and missed the global view.

You guys say that you do this for the community. You put all this hard work in for the community.

If it was really for the community, then why don't you ask the community what THEY want instead of making decisions by your own lonesome and wondering WHY THE FUCK people are pissed off with them.

I have been telling this exact thing to you head admins since about a year ago. If it is really for the community, then get THEM involved. Stop making stupid decisions by yourselves. I thought that by now you guys would know better, after the net-forums.net episode, and now this.

Seriously guys... how many times are you going to do this before you get it right?

Johann

Every member wants something different

we sat and spoke about the needs and wants of everyone and came to what we decided would be the most sense making idea after amalgamating everyones input

The problem is Johann that yes you may be unhappy, but there are other people that are happy and if we go with what you want, there'll be people that wont like what you like and so forth

This is the unfortunately certainty when trying to keep a mass of people happy and this is the last change we'll be making in a long while other than whatever can be coded to please the requests and suggestions that have been coming in.

It If you dont provide suggestions & ideas with your bitching its known as moaning.

Guys, please feel free to email admin@rkki.co.za with your suggestions please. We have been going through all the suggestions and you will see that the work hasnt stopped, the team are still doing changes so jump onto the bandwagon while the fire is hot and get your ideas in early.

thanks

You know what Paul... fuck you. I've been handing suggestions to you on a silver platter for months and you give me that?



ITS CALLED...

...


...


A POLL.

OMG, I can't believe this!
It's actualy damn amusing seeing all you people bitching and moaning about utter bullshit!
Yeah, its alient to everyone, and yeah its annoying to have to have 8 open windows at a time, but I'm sure you guys would agree that if there's a propper "New posts index", MOST your so-called issues would be resolved!

I agree 100% to the shift in more specialised forums, and if we want to go forward its essential.
About the cross site logins, and the "non shared" signatures: Whats the problem there? Cookies are beautifull "stuff", and I have no discomfort after logging in the first time. Signature wise, I kinda like the idea of having the ability to have a different sig in the different sections!

So 'cmon guys: grow up and don't be like dinosaurs. Embrace the change or at least give it a fair chance

Big Up to everyone involved in this massive change! and yeah, I just love the new name!

I must admit, my first impression was OMFG WHAT KAK

I am however slowly getting used to the format, I dont have a concern over the multiple login, I also dont visit all the forums, mostly chill, code and gaming.

Thanks to everyone who is supporting it, and even those of you who aren't but are willing to give it a try - it means a LOT to us...

Its important to remember that as far as the Staff section on NF was concerned, we thought you HATED Net-Forums. All we got where backhanded comments and straight forward complaints.

Regardless, I love the new format. It gives EACH AND EVERY member a chance to focus on what he/she knows best and turn your vault into something special. vault9 IS ALL OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS. Don't think that you know every email we get, every PM. Every complaint...

We will also not be putting up with the shit we usually do, I know this is another one of our babbling warnings, but I assure you - during this week we will be handing out life time bans from all the vault9 sites.

Complain if you want - but we just don't want negative people here, especially having seen how supportive some people have been. aquadog, your suggestions don't matter to most of the staff. Infact, afaik Paul is the only reason you aren't banned.

As he is for a lot of other people, so if you want to give people shit give it to me, not creati0n and paul who do whatever they can to make you happy every day. Think about this guys, we actually sit down at meetings and discuss how to make the forums better for users. How to keep memebrs who are leaving. How to make xxx feel more important.. etc. etc.

p.s. disregard not giving creati0n shit - you wont be able to. He's about to leave vault9 for good. Ungrateful *'s

That was not directed directly at you Johann, that was for everyone. This thread is riddled with shit like "oh I am pissed off kthx" with no decent feedback
I'll apologise for making it seem as though it was directed at you. Keep your personal sentiments to yourself thanks, I dont share your habit of disrespecting my friends.

I am happy with the new site, just there are a few to many bug, which I’m sure you guys will sort out, and accessing the sites is now just that much more difficult, my main suggestion is a Proper Global View, like on the old NF main Index , as that is where we got to access all the great info that was in NF, and as I said before most of us are bandwidth limited at work, so having 8 Vault pages open and to refresh really kills!!

We know about all the bugs, and are working towards fixing them all (one at a time ) lol. I'm working on a way to do the global view like you guys want it but its going to take some time... I'm also wondering about the relevance...

I don't see how any one person would focus on all 9 vaults

But yes - it has been a request from a few people - the Global View was just the fastest I could get something out