capped users shouldnt use it (and they dont have a need to anyway), but overall it does defy the point, no doubt.

i dont "take" anything so maybe my lack of torrenting experience blurs this, but i really see this as quite useful for any uncapped user not wanting to upload 1GB off a 100MB download. id think there'd be more than enough users in the swarm that are capped to seed for anyone else in the same boat, especially considering that there's no way you could not seed and still keep your account unless you had a fairly decent ratio (which requires healthy sharing anyway).

The point of bittorrent is distributed downloading ie. you give what you get. You don't have to upload 1GB off a 100MB download, you just have to maintain a 1:1 ratio. Download 100MB, upload 100MB. It's only fair.

Also, not all torrents require you be subscribed to a site which keeps upload/download ratios.


yeah and what happens when everyone thinks this way? Then we have half seeded torrents all over the show. Great help there!

Seeding a 1:1 ratio is a courtesy that you do unto others. People are giving you THEIR bandwidth. If it wasn't for them then you wouldn't be leeching this download anyhow.



Yeah good observation there Flo...

You people fail to grasp the concept of share and share alike. Your attitudes towards the online community disgusts me.

Thank you sensai, next lifetime im unclear about how bit-torrent works i know exactly who to ask. The entire aim of this specific application was to stop UNCAPPED users from unintentionally capping themselves, what it should be used for and what it COULD be used for are two different things, quite frankly i again see no wrong in putting this application to use where originally intended. The example was simply meant to show how torrents can run over wasting precious uncapped bandwidth, besides it's only possible not to share and keep your account if you have a history of good sharing is it not?

Sites that dont require registration could just as easily be worked around in many other ways, which is why many of them opt for having registered users on their tracker exclusively. Honestly as far as SA goes, any capped user limiting their upload is screwing themselves over by keeping their bandwidth idle, they just have nothing to gain that way, infact they lose by paying for something they dont use and by not increasing their ratio/status for (once again) no real/valid reason.



Again, i said there are plenty of CAPPED users in the swarm that are by default happy to use the bandwidth telkom is screwing them over for anyway, so they wont have any practical use for this application. UNCAPPED users however will find it useful. Not everyone is going to suddenly stop seeding because some guy has made public something he uses for his own convenience: 1) the tracker wont allow them to get anything with a 0.000001 ratio and 2) it's stupid, everyone loses by saving bandwidth that essentially is good for nothing else (i.e capped users).



BT on the whole does absolutely no favours for me, share and share alike? heh. there's honour among thieves afterall! Your mind would have to be shrink-wrapped into not seeing how this helps only a minority (uncapped) of the general (capped) ZA torrent community, any other application of this utility wont work anyway.

Every person that uses BitTorrent KNOWS that it will upload data.
How, pray tell, will they unintentionally cap themselves?
AND WHY THE FUCK DOES A PERSON WHO HAS NO CAP NEED TO FEAR BEING CAPPED?
fP$@#(jtk09j3q9-8q3t-9qt38j3tj3

^ That is ASCII frustration.


But them some people also don't see why killers shouldn't get the death sentence. There's no accounting for taste or common sense.



I tried re-reading that over and over again. I still can't make sense of it, and I read shitloads of letters/queries from 12-year-old kids all day long. Far from suggesting that you have a 12-year-old's linguistic skills, I'm going to call you an idiot instead.


Criminals trying to one-up other criminals. Not to mention that the suppliers of the torrented materials are actually doing a favour by paying for their bandwidth to upload this stuff - only for it to be abused by freeloading scum.




Wait. A capped user is going to screw himself by keeping his bandwidth idle?
Paying?
What the fuck. It's free downloads all round.
DUDE PLEASE STOP TYPING.



More senseless garbage spews forth from your mouth like the false green sludge from the lead character in The Exorcist.
Why exactly would an UNCAPPED user have a problem with uploading a torrent to achieve a 1:1 seed ratio?
Let's see.
I get FREE stuff. I share my FREE stuff till nobody wants anymore. I don't gain anything by limiting the amount of free stuff I give out, nor do I lose anything by giving it away. The point of seeding is to extend the life of the torrent. The more people that are online, attempting to achieve a 1:1 ratio, the longer the information stays available for others. Only once everybody has the file will the torrent die. This saturation will only ever take place if the torrent stays alive long enough for other people to access it too.
I really see some fat Swedish kid sitting there, holding onto his dead 100Mbit line for dear life, in hopes that somebody doesn't start - heaven forbid - seeding off of his connection.




BitTorrent does you no favours?
So you don't use it then, I take it?
Why even contribute to this thread in that case - you're clearly out of your league.

If you HAVE used BitTorrent, then you have been granted a favour. Somebody else was kind enough to leave the file shared so that you may also access it.

You also contradict yourself by mentioning capped and uncapped users AGAIN. IN THE SAME SENTENCE.

You can consider yourself a hero amongst the population of internet stupids, for finally making a post so dumb that I was forced to log in here and attempt to explain the level of idiocy to you. To post and register on a site where I no longer want to do so. Well done, hikizume.

i feel special, you went through all that effort just for me. i was going to (try) and follow up with something equally pathetic, but i have a pretty hard time finding pictures that are underlyingly reciprocative of my own stupidity.

It's actually funny how you cant for once come back with a decent rebuttal to any discussion, instead it goes down to a level where people need to PM me to tone it down so that the thread doesnt go down the toilet. Those who PM'd, if you dont know by now, i give what i get, it's as simple as that.



Oh my, who radioed in for re-enforcements? - Whoever you are please try and find someone literate first!

I didnt say NO CAP christo, i said uncapped. The difference forms part of the very crux of my point.



Anyone who uses this app in the wrong situation will inevitably shoot themselves in the foot. I've explained this already, read it again slowly (above).



Sure, im going to go one step further and call you an ignorant twit. The nail in the coffin is that i actually seriously whole heartedly believe it. You really are a twit and you work for a magazine that as you've implied has quite a number of juvenile readers (assuming the letters you read have anything to do with the magazine ofcourse) with poor basic linguistic skills, hell they cant even write, but by buying your magazine, they pay your salary. I actually have to work and try somehow to maintain a fairly sharpened mindset, i guess some people have all the luck.



Are you serious? Maybe you should stop trying to find ways to make me look like an idiot and then end up making a fool of yourself in the process.
My posts arnt always bullet proof, but for heaven's sake you have surely got to be being deliberately stupid. What can you not understand christo? MAYBE. I. CAN. HELP. YOU. BY. PUNCTUATING. MY. SENTENCES. IN. SUCH. A. WAY. THAT. YOU'RE. FORCED. TO. READ. SLOWER. AND. AS. A. RESULT. ACTUALLY. BEGIN. COMPREHENDING. WHAT. IT. IS. IM. ACTUALLY. TYPING.



Repeat after me.. "UNCAPPED IS NOT THE SAME AS NO CAP AT ALL". Apply this information to rest of your post and bask in the revelation that you were/are a moron for wasting your time explaining something that's ALREADY been acknowledged, ALREADY been understood and ALREADY been separated from what the current argument actually entails and it's all only because of your very own lack of coherent thinking. Honestly, i dont think you want to get any of the points i make whether you agree with them or not.



BitTorrent does me no favours (de ja vou - again -)
Nope, not at all.
I can see the potential use of the program and commented on it from my point of view seeing as it contrasted to someone elses. In other words, i posted in this thread because i could see what antibody was aiming for where others who posted didnt etc.

Im hoping you're in the light about this capped/uncapped thing from a couple paragraphs up. Again, adapt that information here and take a deep breath to fuel that enormous sigh of relief you feel knowing that no-one can physically see what a fool you must look like after all your "misunderstanding".



It really wasnt meant to go this way. All apologies from my side for it, honest.

wow hikizume, you must really love the sound of your own voice. Almost as much as the look of your own posts on forums. Do you masturbate while replying to posts here? Just asking.



I dunno what you were feeling (although i do have an idea, see above!) but special shouldn't be it. The reason I didn't "come back with a decent rebuttal to any discussion" was because there was no discussion. I read the first few sentences if your post and got dizzy because I haven't been graced with such utter garbage in a long, long time. Then I hit reply and posted a sarastic picture. If you don't get it by now, the rabbit can't actually read, so its impossible for him to understand your post.

Just thought i'd make that clear.

Cheers, Jeeves.


references:
Is Hikizume stupid?
Can Rabbits Read?
Who Cares What Hikizume Thinks?

I like the way you argue. Stating up front some lame excuse which you can later use to bow out by saying "oh nos guys I can't state my point because I was asked to shutup".
If you want to argue a point that has mathematical proof, then you are dumb.
The point being that keeping a 1:1 sharing ratio is good for BitTorrent, and as a result this program oh-so-kindly provided by the OP is KILLING THE BITTORRENT NETWORK.



This question still remains, though.
How can somebody unintentionally cap themself?
They're well aware of their actions - downloading and uploading data. They shouldn't be surprised when they suddenly can't access international sites anymore.




Nobody called me to help them. If you're trying to imply that aquadog came running to me going "help lol" then you're sorely mistaken. The link was pasted on IRC where people went "what a dumbass" in response to your brutal defense of what was pointed out in my first paragraph here.

I don't know what you meant with "please try and find someone literate first" but here's a hearty "fuck you" in case that was a thinly veiled attempt to mock me.

For the purposes of the rest of my defense, I will now state that I do accept I was mistaken with the interpretation of "capped" and "uncapped", but this still raises other points. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Fine, call me a twit. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion.
I'm not going to stop you from believing it, either, if that's what you wish to do.
I somehow don't see the correlation between the readers who send me the letters being the ones who pay my salary. Are reading and writing mutually exclusive skills?
Were you trying to imply that I most probably have poor writing abilities, because a large number of 12-year-olds find my reviews appealling?
Were you even trying to make a point, by typing that?!
I'm glad, for your part, that you got it off your chest. Really man - it takes a big man.



Apart from the bits that relate to the misunderstanding of your references to capped and uncapped, along with my misunderstanding thereof, I'd like to prove that I'm an incoherent thinker. My points were all made in the context of the original misunderstanding - something you really don't have to harp on about in the same post until I've admitted that I was wrong.
Instead, you opt to lambast me with the SAME heroic conclusion before I've acknowledged my error as if it will somehow change the quoted texts to reflect that you were right all along. What's up with that?



De ja vou (sic) indeed.
So you admit to not using BitTorrent?
My, what an authoritave view you have!

Having used BT, I can see where those who oppose this software are coming from. I worked hard to seed a file, and when some cheap scum logs on to just leech I get suitably miffed.
There are a million analogies I could use to illustrate my example but they'll be brushed aside and you'll cry, "BUT <analogy subject> ISN'T THE SAME AS BITTORRENT" - not that you'd have any BT experience to back up your point, but still.
Those who use and understand the basics of the torrent system are passionate about sharing the files and spreading the information, regardless of any "losses" incurred by them. Those who don't understand the system are leechers.
And they might not care being called leechers - but they'll be the first fagots to whine with, "OMG WTF I CAN'T GET LEET WAREZ, BITTORRENT SUXX0RZ" when the system changes to cut leechers out of the loop completely.

Well Hello Richard!

Actually, i've been off these forums for quite some time because i hardly have the time to spare anymore. i enjoy making fools of fools, that's why i especially make sure i follow up on any of your or your first mate christo plonker's posts.



Good thing you keep that picture handy on your server then, you must need it often not being able to actually put your assumed intellect to proven good.
Incase you havent noticed (darn im sounding like you already), i couldnt care about your rabbit, your sarcasm or anything you say that's worth absolute zip.

You pull the same bag of tired crap out everytime you get knocked out. Lay down and count to 10, im tired of your ongoing irrelevant crap. If you cant counter-act my argument (and all that follows) then dont bother. It's damn exhausting having to sift through your cover of self admitted sarcasm post after post.

It's as though im disapointed by your essentially contentless replies every single time, despite the fact that ive come to expect and even accept them from you.

It's getting tired, real tired.

aww hikizume ;(

you're breaking my heart.

haha, bow out? heck, i was called a tireless rebutter by aquadog himself. you can rest assured that id have to be dead to let you get away with some of the refined BS you come up with at times.
I see no shame in being wrong or right about anything, it would've been easy enough to read this thread through and nothing else, maybe im cursed for having that attitude? Who knows.

The entire reason things get out of hand is that no-one can reply without being insulting to someone else, i know how BT works. All i've ever said was in our country taking into account the situation with DSL access, the application can be useful in some situations. I crossed the line arguing about whether or not this will hamper the community in any way and i still say no because it's not possible to leech and not seed forever. Doing so is futile and in some situations totally pointless for all parties.

Bringing in examples of other major trackers and situations where caps dont exist is opening the scope of the argument out of context to the actual point of the application. Besides, this isnt the first "anti-seed" app/plugin ever created, the BT community keeps it self alive because all involved are dependent on the system to work as designed. This application wont result in anymore losses than having a couple people lose their accounts for not properly sharing what they've download, this app is just a convenience, it's not doing anything any user could not have done themselves anyway and in that way its perceived "danger" to the BT concept is greatly exaggerated.



They could unintentionally cap themselves by seeding well into their cap. I.E Bob downloads 'Band - New Album' and upon completion of the download mistakenly leaves it shared with no restrictions the entire weekend. The 80MB Bob was willing to part with has turned into a XGB nightmare because he was sharing the album to excess all weekend. It really doesnt seem that far-fetched a scenario. This app can prevent that from happening and according to fishfly some torrent clients have certain implementations available themselves, so really what is the big deal here?




That was my own little version of sarcasm, it's just odd that as history has it, i always end up having to deal with these problems with the both of you.

I was on nixus the other night for the first time in ages, some things never change. Darn, "dumbass" huh? how will i ever get over that one? rejection was just never my thing.



It was nothing more than a low blow really.



I replied to your post as i was reading it. i saw the same misunderstanding coming up again and replied to it again. It was never to emphasize the prevalence of your mistake at all, rather to put each one aside as it came up.



The reason the leecher uses the application must be taken into account, he'd only do that because he'd like to get he torrent before it dies and this may occur before he is in a position to leech and seed freely due to his ADSL status. That leecher wouldnt be able to keep his account if he did this continuously because it would be deleted due to his poor ratio and that's as i see it the most ideal use for this application.
Many other variances are self defeating and reasonless, i mean why wouldn’t you want to seed when you're already capped? Will the odd uncapped user with a good sharing history not wanting to immediately share that specific torrent affect the BT community? Not at all, no-one stays uncapped forever and no-one can leech forever, it's that simple.

YES FOOL IT STOPS WHEN YOU REACH A 1:1 RATIO. IT DOESNT BLOCK YOU FROM UPLOADING COMPLETELY. THAT IS THE BIG DEAL HERE.

Should I proceed to make multiple posts of this so that you can grasp the concept or will you promise to read it at least 10 times before you reply? Please?

The big deal is that the person is effectively reducing the lifespan of the torrent. He's the very same reason that the below would occur.
If he waited till he was in a position to download AND upload his fair share of data, then the person he leeched from wouldn't have stopped seeding as soon as he'd achieved his 1:1 ratio - very much unaware that the person who got the file from him doesn't intend on seeding it.
That breaks the chain, eventually leading to the death of the torrent.

Also - the default BitTorrent client (v4) will seed a file until it reaches 1:1 saturation, and then automatically stops seeding it. Both fair, and bandwidth friendly. This is probably the ultimate blow to both an application that stops seeding and any arguments for it.

All within the circumstance of being uncapped it really doesnt matter. Delaying the seed is futile because the user cant do it consistently anyway, 1) user gets capped and has no reason not to share 2) user requires good ratio to keep his torrent account, so the user has to share. How many times shall i emphasize that? (you really are rubbing off on me, damn)



The chain isnt a one to one relationship, it's one to many (especially given the way super-seed works) so many other people will have the torrent after the initial leecher (lose term) gets his data. As most users in the swarm are capped they'll more than happily be sharing away for however long. It's easy finding the absolute worst case scenario and then making a point around it. This application never once had BTs absolute best interests at heart, because no-one can consistently avoid sharing the abusers will be worked out of the system and there are always plenty of other users in the swarm sharing thus allowing the occasional user with a good ratio a temporarily poorly shared download.

When referring to the death of the torrent i mean the amount of time the tracker keeps track of each torrent (TTL), not the torrent's health.

Emphasize what exactly? Your post is nothing but gibberish.

I guess I'll have to proceed with the repeating then.


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