Hi. Me again...
Take a look at the two attachments below. It’s called The Index of Race Related Stress (IRRS).

It is 22 questions witch the person must fill in, each question in a scale from 0 (never happened to me) to 4 (Event happened and I was extremely upset). To quote a few of the questions:

"You have observed the police treat whites with more respect and dignity than they do blacks"

"You have heard or seen other black people express the desire to be white or to have white physical characteristics because they disliked being black or thought it was ugly."

"You have observed that white kids who commit violent crimes are portrayed as ‘boys being boys’, while black kids who commit similar crimes are wild animals”

The form was handed out to all gr.12 learners at my school to fill in. I feel that the questions are racist.
I do not know from where the forms came and who told the teachers to hand them out. It was definitely not our own school's idea, coz all the teachers are white and it’s an Afrikaans school, the form is in English.


Tell me what do you think? I think its bullshit

And just in case you wonder, these files are EXACTLY the same as to what were handed out. Absolutely NO CHANGES where made WHATSOEVER.


edit: oops, forgot the attachments.
ok, its fine now

My brother, I am here to pass no judgment but if you could see the world through my brown eyes you will understand it not bullshit. -oeple sometimes still cross to the other side of the road no matter how much like a cat i am dressd all eyez on me if in a PC shop from condedecending staff. These are small examples that gives the all around picture.Dont get me wrong i dont fell sorry for myself (quite the opposite really) But broer verstaan maak jou oe oop and next time a waiter serves you in a resturant look around to see who's order hasnt even been taken yet.

So dont think its bullshit just becuz where the we have the grace not complain.

Remember that Ransom on that white girl a while back, of course ,

Remember the 400 + plus children that where raped murdered or missing last year from the Cape flates, i dont think so .

Remember that blak boy who stabbed the white bou with a scisor, mos defitnetly

Have any idea how many children get shot on coloured and black schools in the western cape, Im not to sure abut that.

Get real my brother ek weet hoekom het hulle dit in die eerste plek vir hulle gegee het nie.

BTW i typed that top examples even before i read the doc. It hit very close to home

2'S ALL THE F****N WAY

Well, to tell you the truth, everybody feels that way. And i think that if a waiter does infact not help a person from another race in the way that he should, he [the waiter] is very very stupid. And yes, there are in all races some people who will never treat other races normally. but that happens in ALL races.


and i assume all 400 or atleast half of them where raped by whites (or any other race than themselves)??


no, never even heard of it

erm, yet again: im sure it was a bunch of white men in khaki pants who went there once a week and shot the first coloured person they see, right?

also, pleez undestand that when you read all thos questions, i feel as if it is exactly turned around. i feel as if the word 'black' must have been 'white' and vice versa, coz damn its hard getting a job!

thats the whole point: to see how good your english is and whether they should bring black teachers and pupils to your school, and through the implementation of racial integration, eliminate the need for such a questionaire within your society

its always hard getting a job if you're not better than your equals

Too true.

Overall, yes I think this form is racist.

I think racism is bullshit, even though I know I am guilty of it myself. Let those who are without blame throw the first stone. May be cliche, but it is too true.

I wont comment more because I dont want to get into a whole debate. Although I could post you my spanish essays which are on racism in spain if you would like? about 9 essays, 400 words each.

"You have observed the police treat whites with more respect and dignity than they do blacks"

Where I live I have not seen a white cop in about five years so i don't really know how blacks could be treated badly by the police force when it is predominantly a black organisation.

My area is predominantly a white upper income area. I have not seen a police patrol on my street in about 8 years. The police force is mainly or entirely black. I pay amongst the highest municipal rates in the country and yet the services I receive in return are appalling. These poor services include but are not limited to the areas of sanitation, garbage collection and municipal policing. Do I complain that I am now a victim of reverse-racism? No. I just shutup and carry on being milked for the benefit of the 'disadvantaged' of this country.

This survey is just absurd. Ten years after democracy it asks questions which are no longer even relevant to race relations in this country. It really just further exacerbates this all too common victim mentality.

these forms are racist....I wanted an optional english one. Where the one in my native language?
These forms just give examples of everyday life...whoopitwang. Racism is our number 1 enemy and unfortunatly its army aint shrinking.

sorry, guy, but that had nothing to do with the colour of her skin. If Thabo Mbeki's kid was kidnapped then it would get plastered over every magazine and newspaper in the country.

It was about status. Someone in Sandton got kidnapped and held ransom. White/Black it would have been the same thing.

You are all naaiers. U try nice but at the same time realise the point is that u r all naaiers so...

and verily, the truth has been spoken.

lolympics

[quote]Well, to tell you the truth, everybody feels that way. And i think that if a waiter does infact not help a person from another race in the way that he should, he [the waiter] is very very stupid. And yes, there are in all races some people who will never treat other races normally. but that happens in ALL races.[/quote]

Firstly, Everyone feels that way. ha ha. Dont tell me how everyone feels, u have no idea. You seem to know nothing outside biltong and braais. Secondly, dont tlk about things u know nothing about.You will never see me walking around Camps Bay giving out surfing tips on or instructing "clubbers" on prooper mosh pit technique now do you.

[quote]and i assume all 400 or atleast half of them where raped by whites (or any other race than themselves)??[/quote]

Id like to know what part of your brain instructed you to think that my point meant that it is white people killing the children. It just shows that one white life is much way more important than hundreds of kids. And thats exactly what the docs imply that people's mindsests are still rascist not acts in it self that much

[quote] im sure it was a bunch of white men in khaki pants who went there once a week and shot the first coloured person they see, right?[/quote]

Yes how did u f****n know thats exaclty right!
EDIT: oh fuck sorry im thinking of a coupl of years back

[qoute]also, pleez undestand that when you read all thos questions, i feel as if it is exactly turned around. i feel as if the word 'black' must have been 'white' and vice versa, coz damn its hard getting a job![/quote]

This is so uterly totally ridiculous tht i dont even need to respond. Really get a life your parents work so do all your uncles and cousons and brothers (wish i could say the same). Yet u complain.

Officail statitistics is that 26% of South Africa is unemployed

1.8% Whites are involutarily unemployed u do the math.

In closing dont b a poes u r in no position to tlk about rascim. And be more carefull about the shit you open topics about regardless of how many people agree with u.

all i can say is shut the fuck up. and act behaved, bitch

edit: i dont have the time or feel like sayin something useful, ill do that later.

cheers

Moved this to fight club, guys keep the posts somewhat descent instead of shouting insults to each other else the thread gets closed mmkay?

/me grabs his deck chair, pop corn and coke.
The is going to get interesting

Im getting really tired this is uninteristing to me so babyboy, boo boo grow up. U can reply if u want but really dont see the point.

Hmm boils down to : Person of said race gives bad representation of his race other see it and judge entire race because of this...I dont remember how this ends but I think the indians (native americans) sure kept warm with their new pestilent blankets.

Do not for one minute assume that I have not experienced racism, or anyonne else for that matter. Who said racism was only in South Africa, we have an international community here?

How dare you accuse everyone else here of being the 'stuck up white boys' you seem to think we all are. Don't be so narrow minded and try to stay away from the completely ignorant.

Finally some sensibillity, but actually the docs had nothing to do blame it was simply a psychological test to see how people how have experianced rasicm reacted towards it.

U will notice the way the questions are posed that the fact that those incidents hapening is a given which is true any person of colour knows this.

The last thing i want be is one of those online idoit arses. so apologies 4 the lack of diplomacy.

This is one of the topics where i dont know where to begin or where to end i have so much to.

Im no historian but in every supressive government that has been overthrown...i do not need to get into that but Those apartheid judges, generals, police still retain high ranks after their government has been overthrown.

That is highly unusual/exemptional. Point is the we have been highly leniant about the whole matter. We dont complain yet we have the most to complain about.

So i find it disgusting to say its hard find jobs when so many people STILL arent eating.

PS. I have many 'stuck up white boy' freinds i think they all wonderfull, LOL (just kidding). No seriously i love guys.

Peace

The unemployment rate in Swaziland is 34%.

The unemployment rate in Zambia is 50%.

The unemployment rate in Zimbabwe is 70%.

I bet the unemployment rate for the handful of whites in these countries is much lower than the national average.

What does this prove?

Think about it. Think real hard.

[QUOTE]Im no historian but in every supressive government that has been overthrown...i do not need to get into that but Those apartheid judges, generals, police still retain high ranks after their government has been overthrown.

So i find it disgusting to say its hard find jobs when so many people STILL arent eating.
QUOTE]

As a matter of fact all the highest posts are all held by black officials.

If they choose to buy submarines and corvettes then you only have yourselves to blame when people go hungry.

Whew ... this is a touchy subject.



Amen brother, amen. Infamis - when "black" people are starving, why do you always look to white people to fix it? *YOUR* government has been in power for 10 years, and they have done sweet fuck all to help you. But, lo and behold, when elections come around, the ANC just keep on getting more and more support. Do you really think that one day it'll all just turn around and be ok? I suppose it's white people that are preventing that from happening?



You have not been lenient about this matter. You have been lenient towards a government who promised you things they have not, and will not, deliver. Instead, they make themselves richer and treat you the same way the white government did.

Furthermore, removing people with experience in high-level positions to replace them with others solely based on race is the downfall of every transitional society. Who do you think is meant to keep the economy efficient and running, providing the necessary stability and financial means to effect change? This attitude of "replace the infidel and hope for the best" is exactly the problem. A lot of high-level white people disagreed with the passed regime, by the way.

And before you ask why they didn't do anything about it, maybe you should ask yourself why the current high-level black people are doing nothing about poverty, unemployment and homelessness, while spending all the governments money on fighter planes, travel expenses of overpaid ministers and all the other kak they prioritise over their own people.

Oh boy, I have been looking for a thread like this ever since this whole situation with municipal services started getting so out of hand. People are living in absolute squalor in a lot of places of the country, lacking basic important services like running water, sewerage etc. I assume most of you watched the exposure on Special Assignment a while back on corrupt local authorities? There was this one town where the almost all the streets had holes in them the size of quarries, and another with no running water or sewerage. And yet, the head cronies in the town are driving executive cars like BMW X3’s?

Yet, election after election the same corrupt party that is doing NOTHING to help the most poorest of the poor gets elected into power again. I find this, like I said in the beginning extremely ironic.

"As a matter of fact all the highest posts are all held by black officials."

Incorect : eg. How many black judges are there? Obvisously the gonvernment is going to black we fought for years for the that. but other then top structure nothing much is diferent

"If they choose to buy submarines and corvettes then you only have yourselves to blame when people go hungry."

Firstly i take offence to the "yourselves" comment im not in parliment ok. dickhead. u can call me whatecer yopu want but b carefull not to start making comments like that

Secondly, dont even tlk about buying submarines cuz yall would complain that o we dont have no army shit our police got no guns.

Yes Apartheid can be blamed for a fuck load of things validly.

The way see it It's like South Africa is like teenager with one big fuckd chidhood where she was raped loked in cuboards and wasnt fed. And now she is growing up and ANC is like a Therapist healing the issues I.E BEE its not gonna be easy but has to happen.

the ANC is healing the issues?

You have your head so far up your ass that you don't even realise what is happening to this country.

Infamis and people like him are one of the many reasons that I am migrating (yes, I'm flying south for the winter).

I'm going to go to Australia, then I will be with some people are really racist. You don't know what the meaning of racism is. It's okay though, I'm a white male. Which is awesome for me.

Infamis, I feel really sorry for you and the 'racism' directed towards you. I really do. Next time you cry when the word '[racial slur]' is said, don't worry, I will be crying with you. Next time the newspaper covers a story of a white kid getting raped instead of a black kid, I will also feel disgusted and cheated. Next time someone makes a sweeping generalisation about blacks, I will be there standing up for you. Next time someone blames the ANC, when you know that it is apartheid that is still a problem, I'll be right there with screaming at the stupid whites.

No, not really. I'll do just like you SHOULD do, I'll ignore it and go and do something more important. Like further my education or practise my hockey. I've been subject to some massive racism, I couldn't give a fuck about it.

Like acid off a duck's back.

So here we go, another person who believes racism can only be directed towards blacks. Another person who believes that every white person is the same and supported Apartheid. Another person who uses Apartheid for a scapegoat for all his problems. Another person who tries to feel special by telling people they don't know what he/she has experienced, no shit. Another person who throws "facts" around without even citing sources. Another person who consistently complains instead of getting off his arse and doing something. Another person who complains about racism and doesn't realise he is being racist himself because he will never realise that racism is a reality of life. Another who person who doesn't know that








shit happens so build a bridge, get over it and get on with your life!

I wonder what will happen to SA? The racism issue is growing rapidly, and its still far from over.

I Think: some blacks should stop hating ALL whites for Apartheid and some whites must realize apartheid is over. Then we can all move on

BTW: voting for the ANC isnt going to help our country.

Just back to the survey: Why didnt the make the questions for more than one race, seeing that it is called Race Related Stress?

The ANC hasn't lived up to their promises, but I do not have too much faith in the other parties, although I should reserve my comments as I am not too up to date with politics at the moment.

By the way I do not support the ANC. My party of choice is N.A.N.D.O.S! Just joking...

Pietertjie: What were your classmates reactions to the survey?

all were quite pissed of, well most the matrics were, im not matric. i 'took' the form from one of the teachers, and everyone i showed it to were pissed. this one friend of mine, in matric, took his instead of filling it in, and faxed it to our local newspaper. they published like a small article, not sayin much.

The thing that really pisses me off is that all the situations can be reversed in terms of race and that don't ask you that way giving a one sided view. Anyone I think the survey is really stupid.

We once got this survey from this lady who was running a course about the treatment of women and all the questions were one sided and when stringed together made it look like we were all chauvinistic. But if we questions had both sides the output would be different.

So then we asked the counsellor if we could interview her and a couple guys did and slated her survey to the ground.

The ANC is like a therapist! HAHAHAHA. Good one.

The ANC is more like one of those sex offending Catholic priests. They pretend they're helping and guiding you, but they're really just fucking you in the ass.

One thing I also found funny ... They had this HUGE issue with the blood being categorized by race (a damn easy and generally effective first tier way of doing it IMHO, though not perfect, and NOT racist, just effective).

A month or two ago, they have this item on the news about water use. Nice video clip of one of them ministers going: Yarra yarra yarr - "White males use the most water" - yarra yarra ... Now isn't it racist to sort things according to race?

And with water use, how the heck do they get that information? They can say white males paying their bills use the most water - YAY, they got a whole family running off one bill.

I don't know, it just sounded very suspect. Nobody mentioned anything about it though. No public outrage at the racist statistics, or whatever they call it.

I agree with you u they arent doing that good of a job but that are thier intentions are good and we clearly have a long way to go (becoming a cliche) but ya.

I seem to disagree with and its probally gonna stay that way so lets put it in the past mkay

Guys guys, talking about corrupt government and broken promises by politicians is like saying "Do cows shit?"

I mean seriously, there is not one place on this earth where there are not broken promises, or corrupt officials, I agree that this happens a considerable amount in our lovely country, but it happened during the Nat's time too, so lets just leave that out o the discussion, shall we?

What gets me, is people blaming everything on apartheid. Give, it did cause a lot of shit, and will take time to sort out, but some of the claims are just pure bullshit.
People look at South Africa and have a go at us, but lets have a look at the USA. Racism? KKK ring a bell? they were pretty much the ruling party at one stage, and that is less than 100 years ago!

Australia: Aborigines? Re-education program’s ring a bell? They are still pretty marginalized.

Spain: Gypsies? Same thing.

France: Everyone? (ok, jokes )

But seriously, everyone has something wrong, so no one has the right to point fingers, which is what I have a problem with. Personally, I believe that the best way forward is to strive for the society that we are SOOOO missing.

The best get the best jobs, regardless of whether they are previously disadvantaged or not.
You're telling me that giving some fool who never saw a telephone before an executive position is benefiting the country more than leaving the guy there, who knew exactly what he was doing? NO BLOODY NOT.
Just give everyone the chance for education, for example, look at the USA once again. There were no "Empowerment" drives there, no "quota" systems in place for the sport. and yet, look at what the black community has achieved there. There are millions of black Americans who are educated have high powered, successful jobs. Now just let things in South Africa run their course, forget trying to fast-track things, you just screw it up. Everything will even itself out eventually.

You can't mend a scar this big overnight, and you damn well cant cover it up, the band-aid will just come off. Let it heal, stop aggravating it.

I agree with what you said Gitano, and you basically echoed my thoughts on not replacing experience officials with their "previously disadvantaged" counterparts with far less experience.

The thing is... you can't separate that issue and corruption. It is corruption and nepotism that puts unqualified people in positions of power. I agree that corruption exists in every government, but other seem to have a way of doing it so that it doesn't completely jeopardise an entire society.

Judges are appointed by the Judicial Services Commission which is an independent body. Would you prefer that they were appointed by the ANC? Probably.

South Africa's biggest problem is not the judicial system. South Africa's biggest problems are Aids, poverty and crime. Explain to us how these white judges are increasing the Aids infection rate, the unemployment rate and the crime rate.

These problems need to be tackled by your black government and they are failing dismally. All the highest posts in cabinet are held by your black government.



I am pleased your are offended by being grouped with the decision-makers that you elected. The fact that you find this offensive only further illustrates the poor quality of your leadership.



I am not complaining. You are complaining. You are complaining that people are hungry. I am simply telling you that when your elected party spends R30 billion on weapons then the result will be hungry people. Do the math.

1. There is no threat to South African homeland security that justifies this purchase.



2. These weapons have nothing to do with the police. The police and the military are separate or are you still stuck in an Apartheid mentality?



You can continue to blame Apartheid for all your problems. You can continue to pretend that Apartheid is responsible for the unemployment rate and Aids. You live with a victim mentality.

As long as there are people like you around then South Africa will never be healed. You have no culture of reconciliation. You have no culture of understanding. You only wish to blame every challenge on the past. Fortunately, while you live in the past, there are people of all races that look to the future and are dealing with the challenges we face rather than blaming every challenge on whites.

Well, independant really doesn't mean anything anymore. As is the case in Democracies, money is the ultimate decider.



Very true. Indeed they hold the cards...



Excellent point, Milano.



Namely?



And why exactly? Please explain...what about Affirmative Action? Whats your view on that?

pietertjie, what school do you go to? How did you get your hands on an electronic version of the test?

I don't believe that this test was given to you. I think you found it on the net and decided to start a thread about it. It is an American test and I seriously doubt it would be handed out in SA.

Do I think it's racist? No. When I read it the first thng that came to mind was thart scene in Bowling fo Columbine where Moore is dishing all the facts on the way black people are treated differently in tyhe news in the States.

END!

Possibly everything that is fucked with SA.

But yah racsism, no matter who you are there will always be some nimrod prick who is gonna be a retard about it. May as well get used to it.

Mmm...2 comments made by Infamis.....let me find them quickly....first one in post 9



Here is the second one.....post 24


So, you like to dish out, but get all upset when you are on the receiving end.....

Be careful what you say to who. Don't generalize. Not all people are the same. Not everyone supported the AWB. Not everyone is racists.

So, I would be very careful if I were you, Infamis.

The easiest thing in the world is to blame apartheid for everything. Even 10 years down the line. Even Robert Mugabe is blaming the whites for the state his country is in.

How fucking stupid can you get. Get a life. Live it. Before you call me a Racist: My best buddies are Indians, and Black ous. And I am a whitey. You call me a naaier or a racist ,ouch.... Don't ....It might be really bad for your health.

If you have a issue with specific whites, sort it out. I am proud to be White. You should be proud to be Black. It is a color, ffs, your blood is red, mine is red. Does that make me different from you?

Based on your comment in post9, I think you are suffering from a bad case of Racism?

MrBean.

Ok, i meant all the people all the people that typed i felt where being naaiers not everyone one the site ok. Ive been postin on this site for years now and this is the fight club isnt it.

Other thing is there is a dif. between disin someone and crossing the line onto derogatory remarks. If he had to call me whateva i wont take that same stance.

And, Cum On Really, only the Ultra cynic will deny the "legacy of apartheid" - (ever stop to think why that's a cliche).

Heres the BUT (a big but).

That doesnt mean im gonna sit on my arse and do nothing about it, its not the way i has raised and its not the attidude of my community. Ever hear about kids walking kilometers to school and back - thats what you call pure ambition and hope for the future.

I was wrong to get personal but really cum on people.

EDIT: The point that i was trying to make with country raped thing was that:

No one will deny the fact that sexual abuse or abuse as a child in general will cuz serious phycological problems as an adult. But to deny the fact that years of years apon years of instutional abuse and sub-human treatment of an entire people as whole wont cuase serious after effects is perplexing to me and beyond my comprehension.

And an unwillingness to rectify these occurances and to say lets just forget it is unecceptable to me. I mean where one nation lets go ahead and make it the best it can be and we all need to make sacrifices (eg. BEE).

All crimes have been forgiven and people dont realise what a beutifull thing actually ocurred in South Africa. Its gonna be a bumpy road and changes have to made.

Dont you agree?

Dude.....I grew up without a dad...yeah, I was one of the kids who walked to school, kilometres on a cold wintermorning, with bare feet.....temps close to zero outside, knock your big toe on a stone, and it hurts so much you start to cry.

Worked in a restaurant, every vacation, weekend, 10-12hours a day, to get money to pay school fees, no bicycles...no luxuries. Had my 1st computer ever in 1995, when I was 28 years old.

How does it compare to your life so far? When did you get your first computer? Bicycle? Come on, be honest now.....who paid for your schoolfees, and your tertiary education?

I never said apartheid have not exsisted. Just wondering how old you are, and if you lived in those years. Fair question?

I just have a feeling everytime something doesn't go as the goverment wants, they blame it on apartheid. Everything. That is how they keep their control over the masses.

Even the fact that so many of our people suffer.....but hey, they have more important things to do with the money.....they have to change names of cities, instead of feeding the hungry. Building houses for the needy.....
All we did now, was to go to the other extreme. Racism/racial preference/call it whatever you want.

Show me one white racist and I will show you a black one. Kill the Boer Kill the Farmer. Remember that one.

So, now all blacks are racists. Never mind it was the slogan of just one tiny group. You are all bad!! Bad Bad.

Now, how does that make you feel. See, don't generalize. Because, it is not all blacks that suppported that slogan. It was but a small party. So, not all blacks are bad. Neither are all whites bad.

Not all white kids grew up with bicycles, and computers. I ate mealiepap for the best part of the week. No meat. Sounds familiar?

Mmm....think about it a little, then rant and rave.

Politics piss me off. It is a power game. Played by idiots.

There is a real world out there. Wakie wakie. Smell the coffee.

Sorry, I am not harsh, just old enough to not believe all the shit the goverment wants me to believe. I drive a Bantam1600 ffs. I can show you thousands upon thousands of blacks who drives Mercs. And expensive SUV's.

BEE-blame that if you want to blame anyone or anything for not getting your share. Because, that is where all the money goes. Pocketed by a few very clever, stingie, powehungry fucknuts.

Let me stop here, and rather leave this thread. It really irks me.

What I find perplexing and beyond comprehension is that during this "institutional abuse" and "sub-human" treatment, hundreds of thousands of black people risked their lives to illegally enter South Africa so they could be subjected to this exact same treatment. Weird huh?

Greetings all

One of my black friends explained AA and BEE to me in the following way.

Imagine you have a house with two dogs, the one got all the good food and grew strong, the other one got only a little bit of the left-overs. Now the owner decided to equalize the dogs, he can't just put down a dish of food , cause the stronger o the dogs will be able to push the other dog away and go stronger still, so what the owner did was to reverse the feeding, the small dog got the good food, and the big dog got the scraps(BEE & AA), this would go on until both the dogs were of equal size and could then eat together.

That makes sense..... BUT

One night a robber (social issues, econimic issues, u get the idea)enters the yard to break into the house , in the past the big dog would have kept the burglar at bay.... but .... now it is in such a state that it can't do that anymore (chained in the corner, underfed....etc...etc..) and the other dog has not yet reached it's apoc. so what happens, the burglar strolls in and robs them blind.

What I'm saying is, yes we do need to reform, yes, power and wealth was distributed unfairly, NO I do not agree with the way it's been done. The way it's been done is taking expierenced (sic) players out of the game, the CEO with 20 years of expierence is getting replaced with somebody incompetent ( not saying all people in high places are incompetent). I mean ... come on think about it, small details .... who has not expierenced bad service, poorly run companys ( why am I thinking of tellscum ? )

I'm not saying forget the past, I'm saying put it behind us, remember what happned, learn from it and don't let it happen again. The best way for the country to grow is to look forward, not backwards. Stop complaining how everything is the apartheid regeime's fault, get of your arse (speaking of people in general, not hinting at someone in particular) and make the country a better place.

It's easy to sit back and criticize, it's hard work getting up and doing something about it.


Just my 2c.

why is it that when the word racist is used, it implies a white person?

blacks, orientals, indians and coloured (etc) can also be racist ffs

about BEE :
what was apartheid? - specific type of people prospering ahead of another type of people.

BEE always goes to the same guys, who just get more and more power and money

Maybe it's because there is a stygma in the country by a certain group that only whites can be rasist, ie. racism defined by "the group of people" as whites discriminating against blacks

the reverse is just fair game (because of appartheid and the previous government, bla, bla, ad infinitum) Any other discriminating is not important.

Hence why why people see AA and BEE as reverse discrimination.

Amen. Tell me infamis, which would help the country more:

1) Giving power and money to a few, already priviledged black people in the hope that they may be able to overcome their lack of experience and contribute to a stable economy. I'm still not sure how this helps the unemployed black man on the street though? If the company doesn't grow, where do the jobs come from?

2) Allow experienced manager to stay in their positions, run a thriving ecomony that helps job creation and provides the money for the govermnet to actually help people (assuming they use it for that purpose, and not to buy a space station or something else we *really* need).

Tai-Pan's post about the neighbours dogs is quite good. Explains it perfectly.

Firstly, I consider myself to be a fiscal conservative, and as a white person whose parents accumulated wealth under the Apartheid regime, I am supportive of the ideals of BEE. That is, to begin to address the huge imbalance in South African wealth distribution by allowing broad based black investment.

However, I do feel that currently, those ideals are not being considered in a lot of BEE deals. I support fair economic reform, but I do not support the baseless enrichment of a few black elite.

Bear in mind that the sooner South Africa has a sizable population of middle income, educated, employed black people, the sooner we can begin to approach some sort of social normality instead of the current gross imbalance.

With respect to attempting to right the wrongs of the apartheid era, white people need to bite their tongues. We don't want South Africa to end up like Zimbabwe, where 20 years of black democratic rule resulted in almost no wealth redistribution. We want to redistribute wealth NOW and equitably, for the good of the future economy.

Look Mate, this is a free and democratic society. What I am saying is that everything gets blamed on apartheid.

And all whites are guilty. Now why should I bite my tongue if we have loose cannons like Infamous making comments like he do, being openly racist, but the moment a white says something in defence, we need to bite our tongues.....

Their is something like respect....which apparently a few guys are seriously in need of. Or maybe it is hatred.....I dunno.

I made a point that you get good, and bad whites. Just as you get good, and bad blacks. And the same for any other race on this earth.

There will always, in any society, that is multi-racial, be cultural differences...racial differences....and you are allowed to have those, and express it in a decent, human, acceptable way. Nothing wrong with it.

But, the moment you fester hatred, it gets ugly, or the so-called infamous racism.

It may come as a shock to most people, but my estimate is 80-90% of the normal population actually wants to live in peace...and harmony.....and don't care what color their neighbour is....

But, discussions like these rarely ever goes anywhere, it will only ever be successful when people really make a conscious decision to let go of the hatred, really want to make it work.

With that said, you will ALWAYS have the bad apples, that would blame every and any bad thing that happened to them on the best scapegoat. In this case apartheid.

Well, thats my 2c.

You don't have to agree, just try and understand my viewpoint.

Captn: Seeing that you are rooting for a Socialist Society...ala old USSR: Please send me some of your parents wealth, acquired under Apartheid Regime, because I am white, but also a previously disadvantaged individual.

Let's see what your Dad says about this...rofl....

The solution to this Country, is not one of affirmative fuckup, or BEE....our Economical, and technical growth, will be through education...proper, balanced education....

Only that way can we learn to respect, not only the other individual, bt their culture, needs.....and truelly accept them, regardless of skin color.

See you later, me off to bed now.

MrBean.