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RustPuppet
Since I'm in the mood for a good debate, I thought I'd post a list I found which provides 15 reasons for the legalization of drugs. I did a search on the topic, but the last debate on weed was over a year old; besides, this list provides several new points for discussion.

There are a couple problems with the list, so let me point them out before someone else does. The list itself also mentions drugs other than marijuana, but I believe the points being argued can be applied to any drug. Also, the list is several years old; do you think these points are still relevant now? I think some are even more applicable than they use to be.

Also, the article refers to the US in it's examples, but again, most of them are just as relevant here.

My opinion is that weed should be legalized, as controlled distribution of it would surely solve a lot of issues. I don't smoke it now myself, but I did my fair share back in the day biggrin.gif

Anyway, here's the list (main points are in bold if you're too lazy to read it all):

QUOTE
REASONS TO LEGALIZE DRUGS


There are no panaceas in the world but, for social afflictions, legalizing
drugs comes possibly as close as any single policy could.  Removing legal
penalties from the production, sale and use of "controlled substances"
would alleviate at least a dozen of our biggest social or political
problems.

With proposals for legalization finally in the public eye, there might
be a use for some sort of catalog listing the benefits of legalization.
For advocates, it is an inventory of facts and arguments. For opponents,
it is a record of the problems they might be helping to perpetuate.

The list is intended both as a resource for those wishing to participate in
the legalization debate and as a starting point for those wishing to get
deeper into it.

Are we ready to stop wringing our hands and start solving problems?

1.  Legalizing drugs would make our streets and homes safer.

As Jeffrey Rogers Hummel notes ("Heroin: The Shocking Story," April 1988),
estimates vary widely for the proportion of violent and property crime
related to drugs. Forty percent is a midpoint figure. In an October 1987
survey by Wharton Econometrics for the U.S. Customs Service, the 739 police
chiefs responding "blamed drugs for a fifth of the murders and rapes, a
quarter car thefts, two-fifths of robberies and assaults and half the
nation's burglaries and thefts."

The theoretical and statistical links between drugs and crime are well
established.  In a 2 1/2-year study of Detroit crime, Lester P. Silverman,
former associate director of the National Academy of Sciences' Assembly of
Behavior and Social Sciences, found that a 10 percent increase in the price
of heroin alone "produced an increase of 3.1 percent  total property crimes
in poor nonwhite neighborhoods." Armed robbery jumped 6.4 percent and
simple assault by 5.6 percent throughout the city.

The reasons are not difficult to understand. When law enforcement
restricts the supply of drugs, the price of drugs rises.  In 1984, a
kilogram of cocaine worth $4000 in Colombia sold at wholesale for $30,000,
and at retail in the United States for some $300,000.  At the time a Drug
Enforcement Administration spokesman noted, matter-of-factly, that the
wholesale price doubled in six months "due to crackdowns on producers and
smugglers in Columbia and the U.S."  There are no statistics indicating the
additional number of people killed or mugged thanks to the DEA's crackdown
on cocaine.

   For heroin the factory-to-retail price differential is even greater.
According to U.S. News & World report, in 1985 a gram of pure heroin in
Pakistan cost $5.07, but it sold for $2425 on the street in America--nearly
a five-hundredfold jump.

   The unhappy consequence is that crime also rises, for at least four
reasons:
*   Addicts must shell out hundreds of times the cost of goods, so they
often must turn to crime to finance their habits.  The higher the price
goes, the more they need to steal to buy the same amount.
*   At the same time, those who deal or purchase the stuff find themselves
carrying extremely valuable goods, and become attractive targets for
assault.
*  Police officers and others suspected of being informants for law
enforcement quickly become targets for reprisals.
*  The streets become literally a battleground for "turf" among competing
dealers, as control over a particular block or intersection can net
thousands of additional drug dollars per day.

   Conversely, if and when drugs are legalized, their price will collapse
and so will the sundry drug-related motivations to commit crime.  Consumers
will no longer need to steal to support their habits. A packet of cocaine
will be as tempting to grab from its owner as a pack of cigarettes is
today.  And drug dealers will be pushed out of the retail market by known
retailers.  When was the last time we saw employees of Rite Aid pharmacies
shoot it out with Thrift Drugs for a corner storefront?

   When drugs become legal, we will be able to sleep in our homes and walk
the streets more safely.  As one letter-writer to the Philadelphia Inquirer
put it, "law-abiding citizens will be able to enjoy not living in fear of
assault and burglary."

2.  It would put an end to prison overcrowding.

   Prison overcrowding is a serious and persistent problem.  It makes the
prison environment, violent and faceless to begin with, even more dangerous
and dehumanizing.

  According to the 1988 Statistical Abstract of the United States, between
1979 and 1985 the number of people in federal and state prisons and local
jails grew by 57.8 percent, nine time faster than the general population.

  Governments at all levels keep building more prisons, but the number of
prisoners keeps outpacing the capacity to hold them.  According to the
Federal Bureau of Prisons' 1985 Statistical Report, as of September 30 of
that year federal institutions held 35,959 prisoners-41 percent over the
rated prison capacity of 25,638.  State prisons were 114 percent of
capacity in 1986.

  Of 31,346 sentenced prisoners in federal institutions, those in for drug
law violations were the largest single category, 9487. (A total of 4613
were in prison but not yet sentenced under various charges.)

  Legalizing drugs would immediately relieve the pressure on the prison
system, since there would no longer be "drug offenders" to incarcerate.
And, since many drug users would no longer need to commit violent or
property crime to pay for their habits, there would be fewer "real"
criminals to house in the first place. Instead of building more prisons, we
could pocket the money and still be safer.

  Removing the 9487 drug inmates would leave 26,472.  Of those, 7200 were
in for assault, burglary, larceny-theft, or robbery.  If the proportion of
such crimes that is related to drugs is 40 percent, without drug laws
another 2900 persons would never have made it to federal prison.  The
inmates who remained would be left in a less cruel, degrading environment.
If we repealed the drug laws, we could eventually bring the prison
population down comfortably below the prison's rated capacity.

3.  Drug legalization would free up police resources to fight crimes
against people and property.


   The considerable police efforts now expended against drug activity and
drug-related crime could be redirected toward protecting innocent people
from those who would still commit crime in the absence of drug laws.  The
police could protect us more effectively, as it could focus resources on
catching rapists, murderers and the remaining perpetrators of crimes
against people and property.

4.  It would unclog the court system.

   If you are accused of a crime, it takes months to bring you to trial.
Guilty or innocent, you must live with the anxiety of impending trial until
the trial finally begins.  The process is even more sluggish for civil
proceedings.

   There simply aren't enough judges to handle the skyrocketing caseload.
Because it would cut crime and eliminate drugs as a type of crime,
legislation would wipe tens of thousands of cases off the court dockets
across the continent, permitting the rest to move sooner and faster.
Prosecutors would have more time to handle each case; judges could make
more considered opinions.

   Improved efficiency at the lower levels would have a ripple effect on
higher courts.  Better decisions in the lower courts would yield fewer
grounds for appeals, reduing the caseloads of appeals courts; and in any
event there would be fewer cases to review in the first place.

5.   It would reduce official corruption.

   Drug-related police corruption takes one of two major forms.  Police
officers can offer drug dealers protection in their districts for a share
of the profits (or demand a share under threat of exposure). Or they can
seize dealer's merchandise for sale themselves.

   Seven current or former Philadelphia police officers were indicted May
31 on charges of falsifying records of money and drugs confiscated from
dealers. During a house search, one man turned over $20,000 he had made
from marijuana sales, but the officers gave him a "receipt" for $1870.
Another dealer, reports The Inquirer, "told the grand jury he was charged
with possession of five pounds of marijuana, although 11 pounds were found
in his house."

   In Miami, 59 officers have been fired or suspended since 1985 for
suspicion of wrongdoing.  The police chief and investigators expect the
number eventually to approach 100.  As The Palm Beach Post reported, "That
would mean about one in 100 officers on the thousand man force will have
been tainted by one form of scandal or another."

   Most of the 59 have been accused of trafficking, possessing or using
illegal drugs.  In the biggest single case, 17 officers allegedly
participated in a ring that stole $15 million worth of cocaine from dealers
"and even traffic violators."

  What distinguishes the Miami scandal is that "Police are alleged to be
drug traffickers themselves, not just protectors of criminals who are
engaged in illegal activities," said The post.  According to James Frye, a
criminologist at American University in Washington, the gravity of the
situation in Miami today is comparable to Prohibition-era Chicago in the
1920s and '30s.

   It is apt comparison.  And the problem is not limited to Miami and
Philadelphia.  The astronomical profits from the illegal drug trade are a
powerful incentive on the part of law enforcement agents to partake from
the proceeds.

   Legalizing the drug trade outright would eliminate this inducement to
corruption and help to clean up the police's image.  Eliminating
drug-related corruption cases would further reduce the strain on the
courts, freeing judges and investigators to handle other cases more
thoroughly and expeditiously.

6.  Legalization would save tax money.

    Efforts to interdict the drug traffic alone cost $6.2 billion in 1986,
according to Wharton Econometrics of Bala Cynwyd, Pa.  If we ad the cost of
trying and incarcerating users, traffickers, and those who commit crime to
pay for their drugs, the tab runs well above $10 billion.

   The crisis in inmate housing would disappear, saving taxpayers the
expense of building more prisons in the future.

   As we've noted above, savings would be redirected toward better police
protection and speedier judicial service.  Or it could be converted into
savings for taxpayers.  Or the federal portion of the costs could be
applied toward the budget deficit.  For a change, it's a happy problem to
ponder.  But it takes legalization to make it possible.

7.  It would cripple organized crime.

   The Mafia (heroin), Jamaican gangs (crack), and the Medellin Cartel
(cocaine) stand to lose billions in drug profits from legalization.  On a
per-capita basis, members of organized crime, particularly at the top,
stand to lose the most from legalizing the drug trade.

   The underworld became big business in the United States when alcohol was
prohibited.  Few others would risk setting up the distribution networks,
bribing officials or having to shoot up a policeman or competitor once in a
while.  When alcohol was re-legalized, reputable manufacturers took over.
The risk and the high profits went out of the alcohol trade.  Even if they
wanted to keep control over it, the gangsters could not have targeted every
manufacturer and every beer store.

   The profits from illegal alcohol were minuscule compared to the yield
from today's illegal drugs.  They are the underworld's last great,
greatest, source of illegal income--dwarfing anything to be made
fromgambling, prostitution or other vice.

  Legalizing drugs would knock out this huge prop from under organized
crime.  Smugglers and pushers would have to go aboveboard or go out of
business.  There simply wouldn't be enough other criminal endeavors to
employ them all.

   If we are concerned about the influence of organized crime on
government, industry and our own personal safety, we could strike no single
more damaging blow against today's gangsters than to legalize drugs.

8.  Legal drugs would be safer.  Legalization is a consumer protection
issue.


   Because it is illegal, the drug trade today lacks many of the consumer
safety features common to other markets:  instruction sheets, warning
labels, product quality control, manufacturer accountability.  Driving it
underground makes any product, including drugs, more dangerous than it
needs to be.

  Nobody denies that currently illegal drugs can be dangerous.  But so can
aspirin, countless other over-the-counter drugs and common household items;
yet the proven hazards of matches, modeling glue and lawn mowers are not
used as reasons to make them all illegal.

  Practically anything can kill if used in certain ways.  Like heroin,
salt can make you sick or dead if you take enough of it.  The point is to
learn what the threshold is, and to keep below it.  That many things can
kill is not a reason to prohibit them all--it is a reason to find out how
to handle products to provide the desired action safely.  The same goes for
drugs.

   Today's drug consumer literally doesn't know what he's buying.  The
stuff is so valuable that sellers have an incentive to "cut" (dilute) the
product with foreign substances that look like the real thing.  Most street
heroin is only 3 to 6 percent pure;  street cocaine, 10 to 15 percent.

  Since purity varies greatly, consumers can never be really sure how much
to take to produce the desired effects.  If you're used to 3 percent heroin
and take a 5 percent dose, suddenly you've nearly doubled your intake.

  Manufacturers offering drugs on the open market would face different
incentives than pushers.  They rely on name-brand recognition to build
market share, and on customer loyalty to maintain it.  There would be a
powerful incentive to provide a product of uniform quality:  killing
customers or losing them to competitors is not a proven way to success.
Today, dealers can make so much off a single sale that the incentive to
cultivate a clientele is weak. In fact, police persecution makes it
imperative to move on, damn the customers.

  Pushers don't provide labels or instructions, let alone mailing
addresses.  The illegal nature of the business makes such things
unnecessary or dangerous to the enterprise.  After legalization,
pharmaceutical companies could safely try to win each other's customers--or
guard against liability suits--with better information and more reliable
products.

  Even pure heroin on the open market would be safer than today's impure
drugs.  As long as customers know what they're getting and what it does,
they can adjust their dosages to obtain the intended effect safely.

  Information is the best protection against the potential hazards of
drugs or any other product.  Legalizing drugs would promote consumer health
and safety.

9.  Legalization would help stem the spread of AIDS and other diseases.

    As D.R. Blackmon notes ("Moral Deaths," June 1988), drug prohibition
has helped propagate AIDS among intravenous drug users.

   Because IV drug users utilize hypodermic needles to inject heroin and
other narcotics, access to needles is restricted.  The dearth of needles
leads users to share them.  If one IV user has infected blood and some
enters the needle as it is pulled out, the next user may shoot the
infectious agent directly into his own bloodstream.

   Before the AIDS epidemic, this process was already known to spread other
diseases, principally hepatitis B.  Legalizing drugs would eliminate the
motivation to restrict the sale of hypodermic needles.  With needles cheap
and freely available, the drug users would have little need to share them
and risk acquiring someone else's virus.

   Despite the pain and mess involved, injection became popular because, as
The Washington Times put it, "that's the way to get the biggest, longest
high for the money."  Inexpensive, legal heroin, on the other hand, would
enable customers to get the same effect (using a greater amount) from more
hygienic methods such as smoking or swallowing--cutting further into the
use of needles and further slowing the spread of AIDS.

10. Legalization would halt the erosion of other personal liberties.

    Hundreds of governments and corporations have used the alleged costs
of drugs to begin testing their employees for drugs.  Pennsylvania Rep.
Robert Walker has embarked on a crusade to withhold the federal money
carrot from any company or agency that doesn't guarantee a "drug-free
workplace."

   The federal government has pressured foreign countries to grant access
to bank records so it can check for "laundered" drug money.  Because drug
dealers handle lots of cash, domestic banks are now required to report cash
deposits over $10,000 to the Internal Revenue Service for evidence of
illicit profit.

  The concerns (excesses?) that led to all of these would disappear ipso
facto with drg legalization.  Before drugs became big business, investors
could put their money in secure banks abroad without fear of harassment.
Mom-and-pop stores could deposit their cash receipts unafraid that they
might look like criminals.

   Nobody makes a test for urine levels of sugar or caffeine a requirement
for employment or grounds for dismissal.  However, were they declared
illegal these would certainly become a lot riskier to use, and hence a
possible target for testing "for the sake of our employees."  Legalizing
today's illegal drugs would make them safer, deflating the drive to test
for drug use.

11.  It would stabilize foreign countries and make them safer to live in
and travel to.


   The connection between drug traffickers and and guerrilla groups is
fairly well documented (see "One More Reason," August 1987).  South
American revolutionaries have developed a symbiotic  relationship with with
coca growers and smugglers:  the guerrillas protect the growers and
smugglers in echange for cash to finance their subversive activities.  in
Peru, competing guerrilla groups, the Shining Path and the Tupac Amaru,
fight for the lucrative right to represent coca farmers before drug
traffickers.

   Traffickers themselves are well prepared to defend their crops against
intruding government forces.  A Peruvian military helicopter was destroyed
with bazooka fire in March, 1987, and 23 police officers were killed.  The
following June, drug dealers attacked a camp of national guardsmen in
Venezuela, killing 13.

   In Colombia, scores of police officers, more than 20 judges, two
newspaper editors, the attorney general and the justice minister have been
killed in that country's war against cocaine traffickers.  Two supreme
court justices, including the court president, have resigned following
death threats.  The Palace of Justice was sacked in 1985 as guerrillas
destroyed the records of dozens of drug dealers.

   "This looks like Beirut," said the mayor of Medellin, Colombia, after a
bomb ripped apart a city block where the reputed head of the Medellin
Cartel lives.  It "is a waning of where the madness of the violence that
afflicts us can bring us."

   Legalizing the international drug trade would affect organized crime and
subversion abroad much as it would in the United States.  A major source
for guerrilla funding would disappear.  So would the motive for kidnapping
or assassinating officials and private individuals.  As in the United
States, ordinary Colombians and Peruvians once again could walk the streets
and travel the roads without fear of drug-related violence.  Countries
would no longer be paralyzed by smugglers.

12.  Legalization would repair U.S. relations with other countries and
curtail anti-American sentiment around the world.


   a. When Honduran authorities spirited away alleged drug lord Juan Matta
Ballesteros and had him extradited to the United States in April, Hondurans
rioted in the streets and demonstrated for days at the U.S. embassy in
Tegucigulpa.

   The action violated Honduras's constitution, which prohibits
extradition.  Regardless of what Matta may have done, many Hondurans viewed
the episode as a flagrant violation of their little country's laws, just to
satisfy the wishes of the colossus up North.

   b.  When the U.S. government, in July 1986, sent Army troops and
helicopters to raid cocaine factories in Bolivia, Bolivians were outraged.
The constitution "has been trampled," said the president of Bolivia's House
of Representatives.  The country's constitution requires congressional
approval for any foreign military presence.

   c.  One thousand coca growers marched through the capital, La Paz,
chanting "Death to the United States" and "Up with Coca" last May in
protest over a U.S.-sponsored bill to prohibit most coca production.  In
late June, 5000 angry farmers overran a U.S. Drug Enforcement
Administration jungle base, demanding the 40 American soldiers and drug
agents there leave immediately.

  U.S. pressure on foreign governments to fight their domestic drug
industries has clearly reinforced the image of America as an imperialist
bully, blithely indifferent to the concerns of other peoples.  To Bolivian
coca farmers, the U.S. government is not a beacon of freedom, but a threat
to their livelihoods.  To many Hondurans it seems that their government
will ignore its own constitution on request from Uncle Sam.  Leftists
exploit such episodes to fan nationalistic sentiment to promote their
agendas.

  Legalizing the drug trade would remove some of the reasons to hate
America and deprive local politicians of the chance to exploit them.  The
U.S. would have a new opportunity to repair its reputation in an atmosphere
of mutual respect.


13. Legalization would prevent children from consuming drugs.

    They can get them now in the black market -- it is impossible to
control. If drugs were sold legally through pharmacies, black market
would be inexistent, so children would have it harder to get drugs, and,
even if they could manage to get them, drugs would be safer (no
adulteration, impurities, etc), and  certainly better than inhaling glue
or gasoline.

14. Legalization would encourage pharmaceutical companies the research
    of safer and healthier drugs.


    Well, if you discover a drug  which produces the same effect as
other one but is safer, you will win the customers of the other
companies, and hence increase your benefits (and at the same time the
health of your customers). Perhaps the government ought to subsidize
drug research towards substitutes for current recreational drugs safer,
healthier and less or not addictive.

15. Legalization could teach people to live safe with drugs.

    Last but not least, the money saved from the WOSD, or just the money
from drug taxes (well, they would be taxed, of course) could be redirect
to the cure of drug addicts (if they want, I mean), the subsidies for
drug research, and also to teach people the _true_ real problems
associated with drugs, and the responsible and knowledgeable use of
them.
pietertjie
nice points, but i think some of the things are far fetched?
noosh
and will decrease unemployment becuase the demand for undertakers will be on an all time "high"!
Ka0z
SA can make millions by selling Ganja. We can make billions by selling Ivory from DEAD animals in our national parks.

We have so much potential.

Take a walk through the hills of Knysna.....
Phoenix
To be considered:

QUOTE
1.  Legalizing drugs would make our streets and homes safer.


Er what? Seems to me that the junkies will STILL be stealing to fund their habit. Decreasing the prices will only mean more people can afford to develop the habit - and no that's not the same as cigs, because hard drugs are more psychoactive and so far more necessary to the user.

So we have more unemployed/homeless drug dependents because of increased availability. Our economy crashes. Everyone loses their job. We all turn to theft and prostitution to survive. America swoops in to 'help' and help us out of this cesspit. Our once proud nation becomes GW Bush's bitch in Africa. Zimbabweans laugh at our currency and the refugees spilling across their borders.

Oh, and as the only country with legalisation of recreational drugs all the mobsters decide it's the very best place to set up camp in order to launder money or send people to sleep with the fishies or whatever they do. tongue.gif
killerkevin
Cigarettes are legal... why not dagga? Cigarettes are lame because you smoke them because you're addicted. Dagga you smoke because its nice and gives a nice feeling.

dagga > cigs(lame)
Surge
QUOTE
Cigarettes are legal... why not dagga? Cigarettes are lame because you smoke them because you're addicted. Dagga you smoke because its nice and gives a nice feeling.

Dagga is also addictive. Dagga may be more natural that cigs, but is not healthy. Dagga contains a LOT of harmful chemicals as well.

Just browsing through the 15 reasons provided for the lagalisation of dagga is amusing really...
QUOTE
13. Legalization would prevent children from consuming drugs.

    They can get them now in the black market -- it is impossible to
control. If drugs were sold legally through pharmacies, black market
would be inexistent, so children would have it harder to get drugs, and,
even if they could manage to get them, drugs would be safer (no
adulteration, impurities, etc), and  certainly better than inhaling glue
or gasoline.

laugh.gif Pharmacies sell things to make you feel better from ailments etc, but how does dagga make you feel better and live a healthier life?
I mean, you get high for a few minutes, but what about the lung damage in the long run?
aquadog
marijuana is like magic fairy dust that was never labelled. You might live a long and happy (very happy) life, or you can get a heart attack(from other causes) and die on the spot.
PhyberOptik
All 15 of those reasons are shortsighted and not considered carefully. Every "advantage" that the author cites opens up ten other cans of worms.

However, I believe it comes down to personal choice whether you want to use it or not. The crime that stems from the drug trade is a big cause for concern, though.

This also begs the question - what is more dangerous to your health? Smoking ganja every day or having a Big Mac McMeal everyday, supersized?

I personally believe alchohol to be MUCH more disruptive to society than marijuana, yet alchohol is freely available.
Driver
I feel that it should be up to the individual to choose whether or not to use drugs, any drugs.

Prohibition creates the environment in which the black market thrives, just look to the US and its alcohol prohibition.

END!
Milano
None of these reasons are very solid.

This is my favourite...

QUOTE
13. Legalization would prevent children from consuming drugs.

    They can get them now in the black market -- it is impossible to
control. If drugs were sold legally through pharmacies, black market
would be inexistent, so children would have it harder to get drugs, and,
even if they could manage to get them, drugs would be safer (no
adulteration, impurities, etc), and  certainly better than inhaling glue
or gasoline.


Is that weak or what?
Driver
Drugs would be safer... just ask Brenda Fassie!

END!
capn
drugs are for weaklings. this legalisation would encourage this deviant and self destructive behaviour and attract more people to drugs.
aquadog
hey, the topic of conversation here is Marijuana, not drugs. Marijuana lies on a completely different category than heroine KTHNX
Surge
Dagga may be natural, but it still does long-term damage...
aquadog
proof please :(
aquadog
link

Minimal Long-term Effects Of Marijuana Use Found In Central Nervous System By UCSD Researchers

An analysis of research studies with long-term, recreational users of marijuana has failed to reveal a substantial, systematic effect on the neurocognitive functioning of users. According to researchers at the University of California, San Diego (UCSD) School of Medicine, the only deleterious side effect found was a minimal malfunction in the domains of learning and forgetting.




Sounds terrible harmful to me...
and before anyone bitches about the article, please read it. It was a study done with 704 long-term cannabis users and 484 non-users conducted at the University of California, which is alot more to say that the other sites on the web claiming that marijuana "might" cause cancer etc etc etc.

Smoking marijuana is also not the only way of getting it into your body. You can also consume it, whereby negating the possible damage to your lungs.
koldhardkash
FIGHT THE WAR FUCK THE NORM!

do whatever makes you happy, regardless of the proof and studies, if it makes you feel good, and you're not harming anyone else through your actions, then UP YOURS to anyone else's opinions and 'conclusive-proof-studies' bollocks the end
andyddr
Come to CT and see what this shit does to ppl lol. Tryical conversation with a Woodstock person follows below:

`Heeeyyyy dude, like what`s up? My old lady and me just scored some zoll from that dude over there. Shooo I`m so stoned now (big grin), you want some to fly heeeyyyy? Now we got the munchies, need a half loaf of bread and some milk....`

Fcuking idiots.

I would rather be doing coke again than ever smoking this shit. Not attacking anyone here who does it and I could`nt give a fcuk about how good or bad it is for you, but the effects it has on ppl gets to me, when they start saying `Ohhh I`m so fcuked now, shhweeet` *andy starts to clench fist*

Like Kash pointed out, all to his own smile.gif
PhyberOptik
I wanna recount a funny little thing that happened to me way back in 'varsity.

My friends and I went to visit a pal who was sick in his digs, anyway we were talking kak and so on, and we made some coffee. We wanted some cookies or something, my pal didn't have any but sed we should ask his housemate next door. Asked the housemate, he said "sure, look in the cupboard", anyway, I looked and found a cookie tin. You guessed it - dagga cookies, chocolate chipped. (The REAL cookies he meant were in the NEXT cupboard).

Unknowingly and eagerly grabbing a handful, we started munching. I had THREE! It wasn't long and I was blotto (I'd never even touched any drugs before then). Heheh. The strange part about it is the following story:

In my doped state, I kept hearing this "swish, swish...swish, swish" sound. I was the only one who heard it. It sounded like someone polishing shoes with a brush. It was bugging the crap outta me, so I went to the digs nextdoor (a different house) to investigate. I knocked on the doors, and sure as hell, there was a guy who was polishing his goddamn shoes!

This all goes to show how it can affect you - in my case it affected the filtering action of my basal nucleui in my brain, enabling me to hear the swishing noise through four sets of walls from the house next door...wacko!

I've steered clear of weed from that day on, the biggest single effect it had on me is that is makes you extremely fucking dumb while you're stoned.
BlackRazor
Okay first off Mary Jane aint addictive. I should know I went on a weekend long smoking binge. I'm talking 24h for 2 days.
Afterwards I didnt need another hit. I only smoke the stuff maybe once a month.
1x Joint 1x month

Next: Why should it be legalised?
-Well let me put it this way Have you ever gotten into a fight with a stoner?
I havent...only with drunkards.
-Its cheaper than booze
-its helping people with arthritis,AIDS and bulemia
-You can make clothes from its hemp counterpart aswell as Diesel fuel.
-You get the best sleep ever.

Not all drugs are good...some of them are Great!

The Bad side...
-A joint equals about 6 cigarettes (if smoked if ingested no)
-it stunts semen reproduction (does this matter in a world of 6 billion +?)

Feel free to comment.
Surge
QUOTE(aquadog @ Jun 29 2004, 09:28 AM)
proof please sad.gif

QUOTE
Why is Marijuana bad?
Smoking one marijuana cigarette leads to airway deposition of four times as much cancer-causing tar as does tobacco smoke.


Cases of cancer, including cancer of the mouth, tongue, larynx, jaw, head, neck, and lungs have been reported in young marijuana smokers that would not occur in tobacco smokers until much later in life.


Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. It has been shown that marijuana users are six times more likely to develop schizophrenia than are non-users.


Marijuana causes both dependence and addiction.


In females, marijuana use disrupts hormone cycles. Marijuana is mutagenic, fetotoxic (poisonous to the fetus) and impairs RNA and DNA synthesis.


Marijuana impairs the white blood cells which fight infection. Marijuana also causes decreased resistance to diseases such as herpes. Marijuana smokers have increased outpatient visits for respiratory illnesses, accidents and other illnesses.


In one California study 90% of young cancer patients are marijuana smokers compared with 40% of young people in California as a whole.


Long-term use of marijuana may cause irreversible memory problems. Marijuana impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory and learning. Memory defects may persist for 6 weeks after last marijuana use.


Saying nobody ever died from smoking marijuana is like saying nobody ever died from smoking tobacco. Marijuana contains the same cancer causing chemicals as tobacco. Marijuana contains acetone, hydrogen cyanide, ammonia, carbon monoxide, benzene, benzo pyrene, nitrosamines and many other cancer causing pollutants.


Who is really killing our rain forests? The United Nations reports that in Jamaica growers of marijuana plant their crops on isolated mountain slopes disturbing fragile forest soils. Growers clear cut and destroy the forests exposing fertile soil to runoff and erosion causing permanently damages forests.


Also have a look at this site.
Wally
Dagga isnt that bad, the only thing I dont like about it (only done it onces I think whistling.gif ) is that it can lead to more serious drugs and therefor everybody are warning us about it.

Beer is much better!! beer.gif
Driver
Alcohol is bad, tabacco is bad... so what. People make choices to use these stimulants, let people have the choice to use whatever they please.

The only true way to stop people from even trying drugs is for them to know better, whether the drugs are legal or not they will try them if they want to.

This idea that if drugs are made legal that everyone will suddenly start using them is bollox. If heroin is made legal tomorrow, how many here would sudenly start using it?

END!
RustPuppet
Although we are veering off the topic of the 15 reasons I posted...

I suppose it also depends on personal choice, or even religious beliefs. I've had more debaucherous nights with Puff The Magic Dragon than I care to admit, and afaik I'm still 100% ok.

I've always maintained that I'll try anything once (with the exception of heroine and the like; I ain't touching no needles). I don't regret ever smoking weed, and I reckon it actually taught me something. If I'd never tried it, then I would regret it; don't wanna wake up in 20 years time and realise I missed my chance to experiment!

QUOTE
FIGHT THE WAR FUCK THE NORM!


Yeah! RATM owns punk.gif

offtopic.gif

Back on topic: does anyone actually agree with any of the reasons?
capn
QUOTE
Alcohol is bad, tabacco is bad... so what. People make choices to use these stimulants, let people have the choice to use whatever they please.

Isn't that a bit apocalyptic? How far does your concession to let people have their choice extend? Why should drug use be viewed in a different light to any other destructive behaviour?

*edito* spellong
Driver
Its a personal choice, BCR, and I believe that all people should have the choice whether to abuse their body or not.

Drug abuse is viewed in a different light to other destructive behavior: smoking and drinking are pretty much a norm in most societies whereas drug abuse is totally frowned upon.

END!
Surge
Perhaps they frown more upon abuse of hard drugs (heroine) than to softer drugs (cigs, alcohol), because they hard drugs are more destructive?

I mean, how many cans of beer do you have to drink in order to get alcohol poisoning?

How much heroine do you have to take in order to OD and even die? I lot less than the quantity of alcohol, that is for sure.

QUOTE(Driver)
I believe that all people should have the choice whether to abuse their body or not.

That is a flawed arguement, because if ALL people should be allowed to choose, then what is stopping a 6-year-old from knocking hiself to Hell and gone by trying out heroine?

Also, the younger you are, the more addictive drugs are, so kids would REALLY get a head start in fucking up their lives then.
Driver
That makes sense, Lobo, let me rather say people old enough and considered legal and accountable by the government should be allowed to choose for themselves. (the way it is now with cigs and booze)

The idea of legalising all drugs, in my oppinion, is to have greater control over its use.

END!
Surge
In a way, I think that dagga should be legalised, and controlled in the same manner as it is in Amsterdam.

For one, perhaps some surveys could be done as well, to see if more people are using dagga, since before it was legalised. Of course, getting conclusive results could be a problem, since not all (relevant) people would be willing to partake in the survey, and people can also tend to lie about the (ab)use of drugs (like corporate hotshots).

I do not agree that ALL drugs should be lagalised though, since there are drugs out there which are too potent.

I mean, going cold turkey from cigs, alcohol or dagga is a breeze, compared to going cold turkey from heroine. mellow.gif
Phoenix
Yeah, personal choice ooh wow power to the people and all that.

Everyone has the right to self-destruction.

But if you wanna read up on it, marijuana is addictive. The reason why you don't crave another hit so soon is that it stays so much longer in your system - you don't need it as often as other drugs that are metabolised faster. If you're a weekend binger that's more than enough to never have a craving. And obviously some people get more addicted and faster. (Too lazy to look up a link right now, later maybe...)

So even with 'soft' drugs - ganja (debatable), tobacco, alcohol - how much of a 'personal choice' is it once you're addicted? It seems to me that any and all freedoms you take advantage of are revoked the minute you no longer have the ability to stop yourself.
Surge
And this coming from a med student, so respect. biggrin.gif
Pan
Medical uses of iDagga

GLAUCOMA:

Glaucoma is a condition which interferes with the eye's normal release mechanism and raises the IOP (Inner Ocular Pressure) to dangerous levels.
Cannabis is at least as effective in reducing eye pressure as are currently legal medicines, but without the toxic side effects, change in eye color, or damage to the liver and kidneys all of which have been associated with presently approved glaucoma drugs. (* <-we will remove these and link the whole paragraph to the book in the webshop)


APPETITE:

Resinous cannabis stimulates the appetite and helps patients with debilitating conditions eat and thereby gain weight, giving them the strength they need to combat diseases or infection, and to effect a recovery. Cannabis and it's extracted have demonstrated thought clinical utility in treating persons with anorexia nervosa, as well as wasting syndrome related to tuberculoses, AIDS and Cancer.The herb has also proven useful in settling the stomachs of people with problems such as motion sickness. *

STRESS REDUCTION:

Many social users say that they use marijuana to unwind and quite a few have confided that there have been situations were smoking cannabis kept them from blowing their stack. Cannabis aids psychological perspective, which helps to make little nuisances of life just that much less irritating. The pattern of deep breathing plus breath control that is associated with smoking cannabis may serve as a form of relaxation therapy that reduces stress and generates a sublime sense of well-being.*

IN GYNECOLOGY:

Cannabis has been used successfully in the treatment of hyperemesis gravidarium, a form of morning sickness in which pregnant woman suffer from constant nausea and vomiting. Cannabis reduces pain and increases uterine contractions more quickly than ergot alkaloids.**

Many women find that marijuana relieves menstrual cramps or dysmenorrhea, which was commonly treated with cannabis in the nineteenth century, and is said to have been the purpose for which Queen Victoria was prescribed Cannabis by her personal physician.(~)

Cannabis has also traditionally been used to ease labor distress during childbirth. This is the single most ancient medical use of marijuana that is archeologically confirmed." In a third century tomb, Israeli archeologists discovered the body of a girl who have apparently died in childbirth with traces of hashish at her bedside". (~)

It is also a valuable remedy in the treatment of mastitis and postpartum pain and it has been used to increase lactation.**

MIGRAINES:

Cannabis was used regularly in the nineteenth century to provide relieve from migraine headaches. In 1891Dr JB Mattison asserted that the drug not only shopped migraine headaches but can also be used to prevent the attacks. **

It can be particularly valuable for the relief of neuralgia- a pain that is caused by nerve disturbance.
Pain reduction is frequently cited in medical literature, as well as by patient themselves, as being a primary reason for cannabis use. Also used in menopausal headaches and if these headaches are associated with constipation and anemia, iron and aloe have been recommended to be given simultaneously.*

TUMORS:

Researchers at the Medical College of Virginia discovered that cannabis is an incredibly successful herb for reducing many types of tumors, both benign and malignant (cancerous)***

THC and CBN have inhibited primary tumor growth from 25 to 82% and increased the life expectancy of cancerous mice to the same extent. The anti tumor property of THC and CBN is very selective, as it reduces tumor cells without damaging normal cells.


ANTIBIOTICS

For virtually any disease or infection that can be treated with terramycin, cannabis derivatives are more effective. (Roffman, "Marijuana as Medicine," 1982)

There is some evidence that cannabis has antibacterial properties. Researchers in Czechoslovakia have found that extracts containing cannabidiolic acid can suppress certain bacteria, including certain antibiotic-resistant staphylococci. Applications of cannabis extract have relieved pain and infections form cuts to burns.(~)

INSOMNIA:

Many patientes find that marijuana help them sleep better. In the nineteenth century cannabis was highly recognized as effective hipnotic; Dr J.R. Reynolds strongly recommended it for "senile insomnia". Quite a few healthy people have taken a toke or two everynight before bedtime to help them get to sleep. Medical tests have found that both THC and CBD by themselves help improve sleep.(~)

ASTHMA:

Cannabis smoke is an excellent dilator of the tiny air tubes in the lungs called the bronchi and the bronchioles, opening them up to allowed more oxygen into the blood. Research into the lung's oxygen transfer mechanism suggests that, since cannabis smoke is a bronchodilator, the shallowness of breath, headaches, chestpains and other symptoms of exposure to heavy smoking might be somewhat alleviated by moderate use of cannabis.*

The use of cannabis goes back thousands of years in literature. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin, "Taking a hit of marijuana has been known to stop a full blown asthma attack." The American Medical Association estimates that smoking cannabis would be beneficial for 80% of asthmatics. (Tashkin, Dr. Donald, UCLA Pulmonary Studies, (1969-90)

HERPES:

According to Dr. Gerald Lanez, in a study completed at the University of Southern Florida (Tampa) in 1990, the herpes virus is killed when coming in direct contact with THC (the active ingredient of cannabis). The most effective application is a paste made of crushed "bud" and rubbing alcohol.
It prevents blisters and makes sores dissapear within a day. Cannabis also provides symptomatic relief from gonorrhea and syphillis.**


Original Article
Ziggy
So did you just copy/paste this? Care to actually give your OWN opinion?
MrBean
Well, I still won't try it.....even though I stay in Durbz......rofl.....

Back in Army in 1986 I caught a few troops smoking Dagga (I was NCO on Duty) and boy oh boy, that shit stinks....a nauseating sweet smell....getting headache just thinking about it.....bleghhh...
Ziggy
Did you crack some heads open?
MrBean
Naw, just arrested them, they got some DB drills back then, which was quite....err......vicious......3 days or something if I remember correctly.....anyone ever had DB-Drills will tell you what it is like wink.gif

Rofl....
Ziggy
You should have cracked some heads open. Like Sargeant Barnes in Platoon.
CyberStorm
Has anyone here tried the greens?
I, for one, have not and I dont intend to kill my braincells at an accelerated rate any time soon!

As for the medicinal use of dagga, well, I imagine a lot of dagga lovers suddenly becoming hypochondriac's and moving to Holland (or is it Canada?) with all sorts of "ailments"!
Paul
QUOTE(MrBean @ Feb 12 2005, 11:01 PM)
Naw, just arrested them, they got some DB drills back then, which was quite....err......vicious......3 days or something if I remember correctly.....anyone ever had DB-Drills will tell you what it is like wink.gif

Rofl....
*




om keer, doen dit weer, nog 'n keer, sommer weer.


I only know too well

anyway
I fully support the legalization of dagga in all forms for various reasons.

a ) Hemp farms and manufacturers will be able to supply millions of jobs to South Africa.

b ) Trade will assist in boosting the south african economy once we start exporting certain help by products like clothes

c ) The bottom of the black market will be knocked out completely

d ) the government can have another taxable item. Thereby reducing the taxes on petrol. run correctly the taxes from joints sold at licenced outlets will be able to rebuild hospitals, roads etc

e ) Growing Hemp farms will assist in diminishing the deplention of natural forests by being able to supply paper mills with pulp, thereby saving the trees and the ozone layer, reducing global warming and the negative effects of greenhouse gases. The pulp yeild from an acre of hemp is more than the the pulp yield from trees. And in 18 months you have a full acre again after harvest as opposed to 18 years to regrow trees.

f ) Medicinal uses

g ) the by products of hemp are far cheaper than anything we have on the market today. Hemp oil can be used to make a gasoline-like propellant that is able to fire in the pistons of a vehicle. (yep, dagga can get you places)

h ) by products of hemp are also far superior to most of the prooducts we have around today. Hemp ropes are much stronger than conventional ropes and Hemp clothes last longer too.

i ) I wanna smoke it!!!!!

blood105
this is a 'legalise or not' thread, right ?

i am against the legalisation of dagga, despite all the benefits it may have to the country and its people.

d) not to say that children dont already smoke it, legalising it will make it much easier for them to lay their hands on it. i mean, how many of you didnt steal your dads cigarettes when you were younger ?

a) addiction will drive people to drastic measures to support their habit. people already steal because they are poor and cant buy cigarettes or papsak.

g) legalising dagga will cause rebels to move on to harder drugs, piercings or even linkin park 'underground' labels.

g) increased violence - people will go apeshit when they realise that that last batch of jamaica's finest is actually coriander.

a) national food crisis

napster good, dagga bad.
capn
If you legalise marijuana, why don't you legalise cocaine and heroin at the same time?
Pan
Ziggy, stupid dumbass of course I copied and pasted, hence the reason theres a link to the original article. And no, I dont fucking want to give my own opinion... why? because I dont have to child.

Blessed: How do you compare coke and herion with weed?. Anyone who actually knows what narcotics about would never make a dumbass statement like that.

Why dont the legalise it and tax it? I mean, sure its illegal, but since were South Africans, we pretend its not. And millions more dosh into the country is a heck of a lot better than a small group of people that want us to eat lettuce leaves and carrot sticks.

This should be about choice.

Did you know, at one stage, hemp was the worlds leading crop, its activily grown leggaly in 32 countries, and was originally banned in the states by the cotton and tobacco lobbies as they couldnt compete against the wonder `erb.

The American Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted on hempen paper

Who is more of a danger to himself and society? the man who has had a bottle of brandy or the man who has had a big fat joint?
CyberStorm
If you have some medical condition that is eased by marijuana usage then by all means, stay at home and roll a spliff. Just be discrete about it!

Thats where I believe it should end! I personally know people that have started out using marijuana and have moved on to "harder drugs".
If, legalised more and more people would experiement and then we might have many more social problems that at present!
BlackRazor
I smoke the herb regulary once a month...yeah yeah I know BIIIG surprise.
I dont do alcohol anymore (maybe a beer in 2months) and acid was tried only once (dont recall much).
Personally I say legalise it either for medical purposes or recreational, since we already legalised tobacco and alcohol for so many years, not too mention it has the biggest following and how many drugs do you know that have been legalised in so many countries? (with the exception of glue)
Most of my cohorts smoke it at parties and we have yet to complain about a hangover or say "never again".

I dont understand how people can argue against it if they never tried it or at least read books by at least 2 different authors before forming an opinion.

CyberStorm - Brancell suicide is alcohol related. Cannabis sativa is lung related (if smoked).

Pan - a bit of hicksian philosophy? smile.gif
Pan
QUOTE(CyberStorm @ Feb 13 2005, 01:41 PM)
Thats where I believe it should end! I personally know people that have started out using marijuana and have moved on to "harder drugs".
If, legalised more and more people would experiement and then we might have many more social problems that at present!
*



Yeah, I suppose that accounts for the fact that since the legalized it in the Netherlands, everyone there is a crackhead and heroin user? Not.

Most of the people I know that do drugs, drink also, so is could not the same be said about alchohol? in fact I know more drug users that drink than what smoke weed. Strange ek se.

More social problems? People that smoke weed dont cause fights, they are not aggresive, they dont try do stupid things in their cars... u`re fairly incapacitated. All you wanna do is sit down, chill, and play playstation.

You dont go out, walk into a club, pick a fight with someone there cause 'theyre skeefing your chick", then go home and beat her cause "she was skeefing back"

Alchohol kills a lot more people than weed does. Even in relative percentage comparisson. Alchohol makes people violent, its makes them aggresive etc. Weed doesnt do that.

Ziggy
QUOTE
Ziggy, stupid dumbass of course I copied and pasted, hence the reason theres a link to the original article. And no, I dont fucking want to give my own opinion... why? because I dont have to child.


Oh ho ho! Menstral rage eh? Take it easy Lulubell Im not the one who implanted sand in your vagina.
Why should you post your own view on a discussion you started? Because its retarded and childish to do otherwise, but then you showed those very same traits in your, 'OMG SAND-NIGGERS ARE TEH HOMOCIDAL MANIACS' thread when you couldn't keep up with the debate or support your ignorant point of view and just dropped out.

QUOTE
Why dont the legalise it and tax it? I mean, sure its illegal, but since were South Africans, we pretend its not. And millions more dosh into the country is a heck of a lot better than a small group of people that want us to eat lettuce leaves and carrot sticks.

This should be about choice.

Did you know, at one stage, hemp was the worlds leading crop, its activily grown leggaly in 32 countries, and was originally banned in the states by the cotton and tobacco lobbies as they couldnt compete against the wonder `erb.

The American Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted on hempen paper

Who is more of a danger to himself and society? the man who has had a bottle of brandy or the man who has had a big fat joint?


Oh look, looks like you had an opion after all and DID feel like posting it. Way to go with the contradicting statements there Francine.
Paul
QUOTE(blessed_confusion_reigns @ Feb 13 2005, 11:05 AM)
If you legalise marijuana, why don't you legalise cocaine and heroin at the same time?
*




I'm really sorry but that has got to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard in my life. even though you say it with sarcasm, it actually comes across that it was posted with stupidity.

coke, heroin, acid, cat, x, opium are all chemical drugs.

Sure some of them are derived from plants, but they undergo a massive refining process to bring out the actual drug.

Marijuana however is totally natural.

as a point to note, aztecs used to chew the leaves of the cocoa plant to make themselves numb before going into battle. Its also one of the earliest known Anaesthetics.

If you say in sarcasm, why not legalise heroin and coke, then I ask you why not ban every item in the cupboard under your kitchen sink?

because CAT ( poor mans coke ) is made from household products.
Areduis
Weed is way over-rated.... All of my friends who regularly smoked the reefer failed at least one subject this year. Plus it sucks going out with stoners as they become hectically anti-social...
Pan
yeah when okes like the elite are the more sociable type?

ziggy: bite me. ure really just annoying. stop attacking me and concentrate on the topic. Dumbass. Trust you to bring up religion in this post. pffff.
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