Hello All.
I’m lookin’ to you’ll to verify to me that I’m not crazy.
See there’s this lady who shall remain nameless. If you want you can give her any name you want.

The thing is I’ve known her now a good 4years and in those 4(sorry for mistake) years we’ve grown apart only to get close again at more than one occasion. At some point when I was getting used to the idea of actually feeling anything towards somebody else. I did somethin’ stupid. I won’t go into what I did, but it was very stupid and almost cost her a friendship she valued more than ours at that point.

Now years later, it’s hard to speak to her. She changed (for the better) and she is so much easier to talk to. It’s as if I never really knew her, but now she’s like an open book.
Still though an open book I don’t know how to read.

We spend a lot of time speaking, over the phone or just when we’re *together* (we’re not an item and have never been officially). There’s so much to be said but there seems to be no way of saying it. We have spoken about this, but it didn’t help. I don’t know if this makes any sense, but it almost hurts being with this person or even talking to them. I don’t know what it is I want to say to her, but the fact that I don’t know what it is drives me insane. She has always been this almost expressionless person and not one known for expressing anything she feels at any time. Before she changed is when I hurt her and since it happened then I don’t think she has totally forgiven me. I can’t say I don’t understand, but I mean I was a tad nit younger then and the thought that. Something I did when I was 18 will be what keeps me away from her for the rest of my life.

I feel extremely close to her at the deepest of levels, but above that it’s hard. Almost like the intention and feeling is there, but the words aren’t.

At this point if you’re confused, join the club as I also am. This is almost like a handicap and it takes so much effort to make very little progress. This leads to frustration and silent fights. Silent in that we both know when we’re not Seeing Eye to eye on something, but we’ll just leave it at that and change the subject. I hate this, and I think its no fun for her too.

All this leads to severe depression, to the point where there’s this piercing pain in the centre of my chest, I did tell her once and she said she didn’t want to hear about it. When I asked why, she asked me why I always go out of my way to hurt her. I didn’t know what to say so we changed the topic once again. I don’t know anymore I really don’t.
If I suggest going somewhere where it’ll even be harder to speak or to see each other, she says I shouldn’t, when I ask why, she says because I don’t want to. I’ve given up now, but I can’t really say I have because I still think about it everyday, everyday…

If you’ll were I what in this world would you do or not do?

You seem like a pragmatic chap, and im a bit of a forward person most of the time.

I would say to her, yeah, I hurt you, and given the laws of physics, there's jackall I can about it other than to say im really sorry. If that same situation were to happen now, I would not do it. If you are going to punish me for the rest of my life, let me know now so I can ease your pain and leave you alone. If you want me to make amends in some way be it apologies or being nice and wearing you down over time, at least have the deceny to let me know my attrition is getting somewhere. Just let me know what's happening, cause I smaak you (or dont, whatever you feel) and I want to know how you feel about me.

Something like that. I find having your feelings out in the open, your true feelings mind you, will help her feel comfortable about sharing hers and then you can have a schweet time and move on with your lives.

Disclaimer:

I have never had a real, non-inflatable chick before and thus all advice is likely to be BS, use with caution.

good luck man, holding thumbs for you

Well, as I see it, it all comes down to the magnitude of what you did that hurt her. If confessing your feelings always ends in a non-favourable dead end, thne you've got to work at the barrier. You have to find out what part of what you did is still bothering her. The conscious is more forgiving than the subconscious. Have a talk it out session with her. In person. and as Ninja Mo said, find out what it is that she wants from you. What can you do to make her forgive you. You see, it all depends on what you did. If it broke the trust you had, then you have to rebuild it. Trust is one of the most fickle emotions. You have to build it and keep it there. If it sways but a little, it will crumble and you'll have to start all over. Talk to her. Talking is the only way to solve things.

It seems you really care about this girl, so do what you must to get the ties resown.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all your help I'll be thinking deeply about this and seeking other council at the same time. If you've anything more to add please fell free as I'm fresh outta ideas that's how I eneded up here in the first place.

I don't want to think on her behalf but I suspect that the idea of me in her head was far greater than what I was and possibly could ever be.

I will tell you though what I did, since it really makes no difference. It is not you people who need to forgive me, its her and to some extent myself.
I sort off or rather I did ask her best friend out while me and her had just started our little fling. Now both being friends they called each other (I don't know who called who but it doesn't matter) and well the following day it was on. Worst thing about it is that I don't know why I did this and maybe my lack of reason for such an action is what causes this to be a problem. For if I have no idea why I did this, what can prevent me from doing it again should the situation arise?

I don't know though, I'm just thinkin' out loud here. It took the longest time just for us to get speaking again, I don't want to risk that by pushing her the wrong way. Like I said she was a very sensitive person then and maybe that's partly the problem.
Even when she was screaming at me back then, I could see that she wasn't happy at all, I don't know if this sounds like B.S but you know when you've messed up big time, it shows up in the way that person even looks at you or how they look right past you. They don't wanna be next to you or even anywhere around you.

Maybe it'll take the person she was back then to forgive me, for the person she is know to do the same.

Maybe the best thing I can do is take it one step at a time, very slowly, for her I'd wait. I really would.

Thanx once again you two

(edit spelling)

Gouhan, my fine man, let me tell it to you straight, coming from a woman who's had enough relationships to write a series of novels (I've even been married twice). What you did at 18 (hello! 18), asking her friend out when you and her were just starting out, doesn't warrant the what I called come-hither-but-remain-at-a-distance treatment. In truth, you immediately reacted and remedied the situation.

Why is this girl constantly torturing you, reminding you of what happened? I don't know, I'm not her, but how absolutely unfair to you. You made a mistake. So what. Hell, it even wasn't a really bad mistake. Good grief, I thought what you had done was sleep with her friend. All you did was ask the girl out. You didn't stick your tongue down her throat, you didn't shove your hand down her blouse, you just asked the girl out. Okay, that wasn't smart, but does NOT deserve constant scrutiny. For pete's sake, she needs to overcome her insecurities, and love you for the man you are.

You clearly are a man of character, as you realized your error, and made whatever amends you could. By what right does she have to claim such harsh retribution? She is NOT your wife. She isn't even a long-time girlfriend. Perhaps the question you should be asking is whether or not this girl is worth your love and energy. I'm telling you this now, because its the god-honest truth. You think its hard now? Imagine this girl ten years from now, hell, twenty years from now, still holding this over your head. You will resent her to the point of wanting to scream, and rightfully so. Ask yourself, would you want her to be the mother of your child? Would you want a daughter like her? What would she be like with your child? Would she remind him/her, even if its teasing, that you hurt her?

Look, I've had guys do some really bad stuff to me, and I stuck through much of it to learn that I deserved better. I made mistakes, many mistakes. Do I deserve to be slapped around for them, verbally abused for them, constantly reminded what a boob I am for them? HELL NO! I learned, I live, and now I love and am so happy I actually find myself smiling at nothing really at all, just in knowing I'm alive. I now have a man in my life that I swear stepped out of my dreams, and I'm actively engaged in my passion, which is writing.

What should you do? Take care of yourself. Work to improve you. You can't change her. You can change you. You can do things for you to make YOU happy. If she can't see that you and her are a good match, nothing you do will change that until she is willing to see it. Be good to yourself, Gouhan. What you did wasn't as bad as you think. Look at it with some perspective. There are guys out there that beat women, rape them, introduce them to drugs. Did you do those things? No. You made a mistake? Sure. But you're a better person because of it, and possess a deeper grasp of compassion and affection than you had before. You deserve to know that you're a good guy. Accept it, and have the courage to do what is best for YOU.

Yeah, what Yana said, you go girl

I bow to your wisdom...

Okay Yana point made. Yikes I never saw it that way (well I'm no lady and I couldn't have this insight into it). Thank you for that.
And I know you know you're right, but just for the sake of it. You're right. If I'm not given the chance to change why even bother.

Funny, I spoke to her last night and yeah its a bit tragic. I think more than anything else we fail to communicate clearly. Be it we're both not listening or both not saying what we want to, but what we think the other wants to hear. She is a bit Aloof sometimes especially when you tell her somethin' that's true. Eg, She knows very well she's crazy beautiful, but she'll always be like "Nah I'm normal etc..." finally got over that yesterday and she's now accepted it and we can move on to more important things.


The way you'll put it, I feel stupid now. Stupid for getting so caught up in the problem, that I became and am the problem to an extent.

Like I said, keep 'em comin' and I'll update as soon as things get better or worse...

Star You'll

Stupid? What the hell for? For being human? Welcome to the club! Seriously, you are being way to harsh on yourself. Yeah, she may be all that, but guess what? SO YOU ARE!

Good, you're beginning to realize that it is effective communication that works. Just talking doesn't do jack. Hell, couples that yell at each other are communicating, albeit rather destructive communicating. See? As I said, you give yourself way too little credit. Remember, you're the one who is reaching out. It was you who cared enough to even start this thread. Only a man with compassion would do such a thing.


Anyway...*Coughs and steps off her soapbox*

Just another pontification brought to you by your friendly neighborhood California girl.